steam instal question

Jim_108

can a replacement cast iron boiler be installed using copper pipe and fittings? This is a small (1 mil btu) commerical for a 14 unit building and the owner wants me to use copper instead of steel. Any codes on this in D.C.
thanks
Jim

The Kid_2

copper on steam (no thanks)

I wouldn't install cooper on a 1 BTU boiler. All boiler Manf. want iron..

Jim_108

Thanks for your reply. I don't like it either but is there any code problems with it?
thanks
Jim

Bern

don't know your working pressures but hope this helps

The chief objections to cast iron for high-pressure steam are its weight
and lack of homogeneity. It is mostly used in connection with water
service and sanitation. For manifold headers and the like steel pipes
with welded connections have superseded cast iron in the modern plant.
Cast-steel Pipe. — Cast-steel headers are sometimes used in power
plants for highly superheated steam, since the material is not affected
by temperature variations to the same extent as mild steel. High first
cost and the difficulty of securing castings free from blowholes have
prevented its more general use.
Copper Pipes. — Copper steam pipes were in common use for many
years in marine service on account of their flexibility. To increase the
bursting strength, pipes above 6 inches in diameter were generally
wound with a close spiral of copper or composition wire. In recent
years wrought-iron and steel pipe bends have practically superseded
copper for flexible connections. As a rule the use of copper pipes should
be avoided on account of the rapid deterioration of the metal under
high temperatures and stress variations. The cost is prohibitive for
most purposes and this alone prevents it from being seriously considered
in the manufacture of pipe. Copper expansion joints are occasionally
used in low-pressure work.
Brass Pipes. — Brass is little used in the construction of pipes on
account of its high cost. It withstands corrosive action much better
than iron or steel and is sometimes used in connecting the feed main
with the boiler drum. Special alloys, nickel steel, "ferrosteel," malleable
iron, and the like have been used in the manufacture of pipes,
and possess points of superiority over wrought iron and steel for some
purposes, but the cost is prohibitive for average steam power plant
practice.

The Kid_2

how about the boiler Rep?

I think I see where this is heading, I'm assuming that there is a cost issue with the home owner? And you are aware of the does and don'ts of steam, if by chance you can't obtain the codes for boilers of that size for your area I would reguest a letter or installation mannual from the boiler rep., so then you can present this to the owner. I do know that some boiler manufactures will not warranty the boiler if the headers are in copper. Returns however I suppose could be in copper, but even then I wouldn't These reps are willing to help out the trade as much as they can and they will be more then willing to get all the info you need, possibly the code for you area.

Jim_108

Low pressure on this 14 unit apt. build.
thanks
jim

Boilerpro_5

Welded connections on headers...

can be a serious problem, especially with cast iron boilers with multiple supply tappings. A welded steel header expands and contracts at a different rate than the boiler castings and causes heavy stress on the boiler. I have seen boilers the size your talking about begin to leak in only 3 heating seasons at the top of the sections. On a steel boiler this is not an issue. However, the piping in the system moves and if there are not swing joints near the boiler the boiler will recieve this stress, no matter what type it is. All manufacturer installation manuals I have seen recommend threaded swing joints near the boiler as the firest choice and then flanged welded headers as the least desirable choice. There simply has to be room left for the movement of iping due to the large changes in temperature of the system.

Boilerpro



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Steamhead (in transit)

Don't do it, Jim

Copper has no place on pipes that carry steam- the soldered joints can break. Talk to Ron Beck at Burnham, he was actually inside a boiler room when a copper header joint failed. He got out in one piece, but might not have.

If the owner won't budge, don't take the job.

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