W/M ULTRA PROBLEM

EtienneHancock

Either the wrong size near boiler piping, too small of a load, or air in the system (sometimes air will flash into steam in the heat exchanger).

Can you post any photos?

Todd_17

W/m ULTRA PROBLEM

I have installed a dozen or so weil mclain ultra's with good success , including one in my own house. I am now having a problem with mine going into "hard lock-out"
with a code of "E-18" "outlet temp higher than 210"
Where do i start trouble shooting?
The boiler is piped in a primary/ secondary loops with a seperate loop right of the boiler for dhw using the boiler priority wiring. the boiler heats a 2000square foot ranch with 3 zones of copper fin base board( zone valves) at 180 temp and 2 zones of in floor heat. 1 zone set for 130 temp and the other zone set for 150 temp. both using seperate mixing valves and circulators. the boiler was installed 9/05

Tony_23

Air

I had a couple doing this only when it got real cold out, at or near design. They are retrofits on bbd systems using ODR and 30 minute boost for recovery from setback. I had tried a different air eliminator and it wasn't doing it's job. When the water temp got close to 180 air would seperate and the vent wouldn't work, leaving it in the boiler loop. The call for heat would end and the air would get bound in the circ and on the next call wouldn't circulate shutting down on E-18.

Drove me and these 2 customers nuts thru Dec & Jan until I got there before they reset a cold system and heard the air moving. I put in Spirovents, like I should've the 1st time, and no more tears

I also have 2 deep-sea fishing sinkers that won't give the wildlife lead poisoning

bobbyg_2

A couple of things.

Tony (comfortpro@) what type of air separator weren't doing their job? Air scoop type air separators need a length of straight pipe before the inlet side to ensure "laminar" flow for entrained air to rise in the air separator.....

back to the original post. "Where do I start troubleshooting" or a statement similar sounds like you aren't too familiar with the way hydronic systems operate. If you have installed any of these systems I would hope you are trying to understand how they work so that you can start troubleshooting "on the fly"....

If the E-19 error code means high temperature in boiler.....a boiler is made to put energy into the water and water must be circulated to move this heated water out of the boiler and into the system.....

(Either the circulator isn't working or something is keeping it from doing its job)

When you hit the reset button, how long does it run? Can you verify the circulator is working by checking the amp draw of the circulator, verify the 110V is there to the circ.

If circ checks out OK, then look for air bound (either in the circulator or the boiler). Can you force water in one direction and air out the other in this secondary loop? With ball valve boiler drain like in the piping diagrams.

lets start there.

bovide_4

Bobby, let's not be condescending, okay?

Tony_23

bobbyg

I don't use scoops. I prefer the reliability of Spirovents. I go thru boxes and boxes of float-vents every winter, just replacing ones that quit.

I won't name the knockoff "venter" here, but it didn't "brush" the air out well at all

bobbyg_2

bovide,
what part was condescending.....That wasn't my intent and I would like to figure out how to get my point across without that.

I over my response and can't figure it out unless it is the "if you installed a bunch of these I hope you are trying to learn how the systems work so you can troubleshoot on the fly".........If that is, please help me explain a better way to explain to this person they should know the basics if they are going to be installing them....Maybe I am a little touchy about that because I am bombarded with contractors who don't want to learn, but they call me and expect miracles immediately ( and they can be quite pushy). Was that the condescending remarks?

I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone.

Thanks for your help.
Peace.

bobbyg_2

That's cool Tony, I haven't had any trouble with any scoop type vent, if they are installed and have the laminar flow.

I mean as far as air bounding up a line. I power purge everything on startup and haven't had any troubles.

I know the spirovent and the callefi probably are the best out there, but just haven't seen the need to change.

Thanks for the info.

Todd_17

not the

Air is not the problem, with a spirovent in the system there is not any noise. Reading the trouble shooting guide, they suggested reading actual outlet temp versus using the supplied temp sensor reading. there is a difference of up to 26 degrees

bobbyg_2

so its a "leaving boiler" thermistor issue? Do you have the chart that shows you the resistance value vs. the temp for the thermistor (as a way to check to see if the thermistor is bad)?

If you do, I would take it off and let it cool off to room temperature and then read the resistance on it. (I can look it up if you need me to).

Tony_23

Scoops

It's not the scoop that's at fault, it's the vent on top of it that's unreliable.

Floyd_48

A few things...

What size boiler?? What size and length pipe?? What size pump??? What indirect are you using??
Is it locking out on a call for space heat or DHW???

My gut says that it is locking on space heating and that the pump is either too small or not working properly...
Pictures would really help...

Meantime, run the high limit setpoint for the space heating back to say 170 or so and see if that solves the problem. What happens on a low flow situation is that the boiler will ramp up to high fire and be adding more heat than the water can remove, the WM brain is very slow to respond when ramping back down and the boiler will over heat before the brain will cut the fire back enough. By setting back the high limit you will start it ramping back sooner. It's not a complete fix but may help for now. Might be tought that you could run and heat at a much lower temp. than you thought...

There are other things you can do such as limiting the high fire of the boiler, and changing the reset curve also, but they can get very complicated...

Floyd