This Steamer Can Burn Either Oil or Gas (Gordo & Steamhead)

Steamhead (in transit)

but here's the story: A long-time customer of mine, from before we started All Steamed Up, Inc., bought this house in the Mount Washington neighborhood of Baltimore. The house was in rather poor condition and the existing steam boiler was rotted out at the waterline- it was a Burnham 408 I believe, atmospheric gas with a copper pseudo-header.

The new owners did a LOT of work to the house, and hired us to replace the boiler and rehab the one-pipe steam system. We chose the 6-section Smith 8 series in G-8 trim, with a Carlin EZ-Gas power burner.

The previous owners had built a deck over the outside basement entrance, and the inside stairs were narrow and had a very tight curve. The only way to get the boiler into the basement was by knocking it down.

The first pic is the house, viewed from the street, basking in its new-found curb appeal. The second and third are the boiler block in the basement, after we had completed the hydrostatic test.

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Steamhead (in transit)

Piping it in

pics 4, 5 and 6 are the drop header (3-inch, with roughly 40-inch-tall risers, elbowing into the existing 3-inch header), Hartford Loop and gas piping going in. Note to John Hall- here are a few more pics of Gordo you might like, since the first one got such good reviews ;-)

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Steamhead (in transit)

Making Steam!

The owner had had most of his rads stripped and repainted, so we had to hook them up before we could get heat into the house. This got a bit interesting in the bathroom and kitchen, where the floor levels had changed. But we got the heat on, just in time for their new baby, born six weeks premature, to come home to a warm house.

The Smith 8 series is available from the factory with the usual Beckett, Carlin and Riello oil burners as well as the Carlin EZ-Gas which makes it a G-8. This means if the owners wish to switch fuels, they don't need to replace the boiler to do it.

Another advantage is that this is a wet-base boiler. The flame is completely surrounded with water-backed cast iron, except of course at the front burner mounting plate. The usual atmospheric boiler is dry-base, with the firing zone completely below the cast-iron sections where it loses a noticeable amount of heat. So for a given DOE heating capacity, the G-8 is about 6% more efficient than the usual atmospheric type. The DOE rating of the usual atmospheric is about 80% of its Input rating, for the G8 it is 86%.

This is one nice boiler. The one thing I would wish for is that it were a 3-pass type, rather than vertical-flue/pin. But for now, it is the best residential gas-fired steamer we've seen.

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Bruce Stevens

Sweel looking

install Frank, then again we know that you and Gorden can always be called on to do the best

Todd_28

Nice Job

This came out great, and I know that you love this model boiler however, most cast iron oil boilers can be fired with a power gas burner with no problem either. The big thing to me with the 8 is that it is tough to clean,on the fire side - that top horizontal area is not easy to get to!!! That is a major drawback for me.

Steamhead (in transit)

The advantage here

is that it comes this way from the factory, rather than being field-engineered. We like having factory certification and support for the whole package. That's also where the efficiency comparison cited above came from- ratings provided by the factory according to standardized test procedures.

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Boilerpro_5

Is that teflon tape on your joints?

I've been looking more and more at this type of gas set up, as you know and I plan on offering it regularly. Where can info be found on the gas setups and efficiency ratings?

Boilerpro

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Steamhead (in transit)

Teflon and red silicone

since we can't depend on good threads anymore, even with American pipe and fittings. The silicone is Gordon's idea and it seems to work well.

The efficiency comparison involves figuring what percentage the DOE rating is of the Input rating. On many calculators, you enter the smaller number (DOE) divided by the larger one (Input) and instead of = you hit the % key.

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Boilerpro_5

Do you use the two sealants together?

Silicone, tape and then silicone?

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Dave_4

?

malleable fittings?

copper return?

silicone & teflon?

Could it be... Fanaticism gone awry?

Steamhead (in transit)

malleable fittings?- have to use what we can get

copper return?- lasts longer on wet returns that don't carry steam

silicone & teflon?- we don't like leaks, and some fittings are truly awful these days, see above

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Steamhead (in transit)

Yup

it works surprisingly well. The best part is if you have to take something apart later- the joint breaks much more easily than if dope were used with the tape.

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Todd_28

Silicone

We did this also on tankless coils. When trying to solder a MIP X SWT adapter that needs to be screwed into the coil first, we used to burn the pipe dope which led to leaks(worded that one good-haha). This was a great tip that Ron JR gave me.

Steamhead (in transit)

Great minds

think alike!

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Steamhead (in transit)

Had an e-mail from the owner this morning

"the house is so warm!!! thanks again."

Pipes will be insulated later.

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Dave_4

The water...

you once walked on - appears as a mirage all of a sudden.

Can't get c.i. fittings - in Balmore MD?

Condensate without copper eating acids?

Blaiming bad threads for joint leaks and making up new concoctions - hoping to overcome something avoidable?

I don't know who's writing using "steamhead" as their name, but the man I knew by that name, doesn't do the things seen in the photo, nor claim the materials are to blame.

Not now. Not ever. Will the real Frank Wilsey please stand up!

Steamhead (in transit)

C'mon, Ken

sometimes they have CI fittings, sometimes they don't. Sure, they might have them in a few weeks, but we couldn't wait that long. Besides, breaking CI fittings isn't such a necessity now that we have Sawzalls. Though I'll grant that hitting CI with a sledgehammer can be therapeutic....

Might be the water around here, but the older wet returns we see that are leaking or plugged up are all steel. The older copper ones- some that are 20 years old or more- are fine, never seen a leaker yet, though there's always a first time. Even Frank Gerety advocated copper returns in "secure" NYC buildings where the junkies wouldn't steal the copper.

Baltimore's water is good enough that boiler water treatment is seldom needed- that's about the only thing the city government hasn't completely screwed up yet. The water might have been different in North Jersey, and would certainly be on a well-water system.

And we're not the only ones to have noted a decline in fitting quality. There have been several threads in the past year on this topic. We had a real bad experience with some 4-inch stuff on the Bromo-Seltzer Tower job, and there was nothing whatever amiss with the way we put them together. But we make them work without leaking, as is our job.

As for walking on water- I've never claimed I could do that.



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Dave_4

The greatest contemporary steam man on earth...

Cannot afford to stock cast iron fittings, then complains about bad BM fittings leaking and whips up "new" doping techniques that take up the challenging question of, "What does one get when one mixes teflon with silicone at 215F?

I wonder what silicone goo "residuals" will do to boiler water quality (as it slowly migrates back to the boiler block). I wonder what will result in regard to steam quality? I wonder why teflon and HT silicone work - and straight teflon tape won't?

Maybe it's the BM fittings stretching beyond teflon's ability to seal? Gordo may be right. I'd just love to know why. It was my experience that teflon tape on good or bad pipe AND c.i. fittings might leak, I was just lucky - and they NEVER did. But then, I was anal as hell. I wire brushed both male and femal threads and cleaned them with solvent and compressed air - many times.

Steamhead (in transit)

Well, Ken

the concept of using silicone did not start with us. It's been done before, Gordon picked the idea up, and apparently works without side effects. The silicone we use is the hi-temp red stuff also used to seal flueways and firing zones, so it can take the heat, and can also move a bit without breaking the seal. I'd also think that once it was set up, it would be less likely to leach into the flowing steam than some other sealants.

At any rate, it works.

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Keith_8

stock?

I thought that was what the supply houses are for?

I deal with some pretty big supply houses and their availability of 4" & 6" CI fittings is poor. My guess is they don't want to tie up 10 or 15 thousand dollars in material that doesn't move on a regular basis. Neither do I.

We also have come to the conclusion that teflon and Ultra Black hi temp silicone does the job. I haven't noticed
teflon or silicone when I'm skimming? Does it break down and end up in the boiler eventually.

I will agree with you that we should be paying more attention to cleaning the threads and fittings prior to assembly.

Keith

Scott Kneeland

Dope

Frank I don't know what picture the silicone is in I can't find it, but if it work, great. I have asked several tradesmen who swear on Rectorseal #5 if they ever read the directions on the can. Thay can't believe that I would of ever done it. It is most interesting and SUPRISED. On gas lines I started using Permatex #2 it works great on questionable threads. Steam I use Locktite cord with blue Leak-loc. Thread quality iy poor at best, make on fittings differs from brand to brand and Ido a lot of black and am glad I'm not the only one unhappy.

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Scott Kneeland

????

Todd
What silicone do you use? I'm interested thanks

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hot_rod

I think Permatex makes

a silicone thread compound. Blue color if I'm not mistaken. Mechanics love it and claim it is the only way to seal brass threaded fittings in aluminum, mainly automatic transmission hydraulic lines. High pressure and temperatures.

Blue LeakLoc works great also. Not cheap.

hot rod

Todd_28

I think it was

RTV High temp silicone. Definatley the red stuff. And we also used it for flues etc. Maybe Ron Jr is around and can confirm this?

bovide_4

isn't Leak-lok a hard-set sealant? Does vibration have a negative impact after the dope sets? At least two local gas company techs told me they have seen bad experiences with this.

Steamhead (in transit)

That's the one

for some reason I couldn't remember RTV, must be old age setting in....

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Steamhead (in transit)

Most of what we stock

are items that are needed on 5-degree nights, to get systems running again without having to go to a "supply" house. So on boiler replacements we get our fittings as needed.

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Steamhead (in transit)

Cast Iron Fittings

aren't what they're cracked up to be.

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Dave_4

So does

lamp wick.

Maybe we should use Rectorseal # 5, Teflon tape, HT silicone, and lamp-wick.

A bad joint, regardless of dope used, is still a bad joint.

Masking the problem with dope's never intended or known to be "compatible" - is not for the faint of heart.

Has anyone bothered to find out what exactly is "wrong" with the threads that require such a pot-shot "fix"?

Was it the fittings, or the pipe, or both? What was wrong; the threads - or the material the pipe or fitting was made of?

Not to beat it to complete death, but how many rotations and what width teflon tape were tried?

Unknown

Frank asisde from

the discussion on pipe and pipe dope. Did the EZ burner come predrilled or is it the new one with orifice in the pipe? Also did you use any kind of target wall in the combustion chamber? What were the results of combustion test on this usnit once installed and running? Did the oil gun also come with the package for future use if needed? I am also curious as to final cost for the install? If you do not want to post the price if possible send me an e-mail.

Steamhead (in transit)

Tim, we didn't take the EZ-Gas apart

so I couldn't tell you what orifice it has. But we'll be back there to do some other things so I'll try to check then. Maybe it'll be in the manual, which we left on-site.

The EZ-Gas was supplied by Smith in lieu of an oil burner. The usual target and rug were also supplied and installed. It is a complete factory configuration.

During setup, I noted that if the excess air went below 23% it would start making CO. At 25% it cleaned up, CO2 at that point was 9.5%. I left it at 29% EA, 9% CO2 and 7 PPM air-free. That's all I can remember without having the printout in front of me. Watch your e-mail for more.

Glad to have you back.

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Scott Kneeland

Whats you issue?

Ken
why bust our stones?
I hate to say it orb stupe to your level buy you could not carry Frank's or my drop lite.

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Scott Kneeland

Ken,
I am sorry for the out burst. I have the upmost respect for the site and my comments were uncalled for. I was upset wiyh your comments and thats all. i do respect your ability and knowledge and should not have "jumped Ugly"


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Boilerpro_5

That's a nice clean burning set up!

I am going to be calling upon Smith this week....If I GET the time!

Boilerpro

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EBEBRATT-Ed

Nice job (as usual)

I'll agree that the quality of the fittings is sometimes poor.

I like teflon tape with dope outside and inside the fitting. I like Rectorseal "True Blue" which seems to work pretty well for me (everyone has there favorite method).


Ed

kevin coppinger_4

is there a...

hartford loop on there...or is it just hard to see....kpc

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Steamhead (in transit)

Yes there is

the camera angle hides the Loop itself, but you should be able to see the tee.

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