Green electric

Joe Billow_6

Thanks, I will check it out. I have been using the Concepts. We have CHEAP hydro here so many only want electrics.

dice16

green electric

How do you appease a builder looking for "green electric boiler"?

David Nadle

Maybe...

spray paint? Kidding aside, doesn't "Energy Star" rating mean an appliance is "green?"

dice16

nice

wow! seriously, how is an electric boiler rated.....?

Weezbo

A complete set,

of Leprechauns that the D.E.A. had working for them took up rating boilers.

some of them were deep under cover agents and some of the findings might be coloured with peculiarly sketchy documentation due to their previous occupations.:)

scott markle_2

no such thing

Unless were talking about a ground source heat pump.

Electrical resistance is 100 percent efficient regardless of equipment manufacturer. That is to say that for every kw of electrical energy an equivalent amount of thermal energy is released. Same goes for un-vented gas heaters. It's not that converting electricity to heat is any more efficient, it's the absence of any heat exchanger needed to separate combustion by- products.

What's misleading about this 100% number is that it doesn't included the inefficiencies of generation and transmission. While things may have improved some, my 1971 energy flow chart shows an electrical generation and transmission efficiency of 31%.

As far as "green" goes this is the sort of question that makes me highly skeptical of the whole movement. Electricity is too valuable and environmentally expensive to use for heating. If it's thermal energy were after how much sense does it make to burn something, convert that heat to electricity (at a low efficiency) move it over ugly wasteful transmission lines only to convert it back to heat.


I'm beginning to accept the inevitability of die-back, I think we are probably just too stupid and greedy to turn things around as a species. If people can sleep better with a green electric heater "power to them" so to speak.

Joe Billow_6

Show him this, green boiler. http://www.conceptmfginc.com/

Andrew Hagen_2

Green Electric

I could not agree more.

hot_rod

Electro Industries

makes a very nice, quiet, modulating electric boiler. They also have a neat zone controller that works with the modulating feature, using PWM to match the boiler output to the zone's needs. www.electromn.com

hot rod

Rich Kontny_5

Off Peak rates

Hopefully we will return to a conservation minded government with the public truly in mind.While generation and transmission do indeed eat up over 50% of the energy
generated it is what they do with the generation capacity during off peak hours that is important.

WE need to start thinking about dual heat source capabilities not only in commercial and institutional applications but in residential applications as well.

With the green movement gaining momentum I think they have to factor in available energy as well as the source of that energy and it's negative effects on the environment.

Electric utilities are geared up for peak capacity and have created a very reliable and user friendly energy source albeit not perfect. They need to preferably promote off peak rates that keep there equipment providing electricity instead of wasted steam that is sent to cooling ponds or cooling towers insted of generating electricity.

Al Gs famous carbon footprint could be reduced if off peak rates are attractive enough to have lets say a 80 gallon electric water heater piped in such a way that it supplements a more cost effective heat source at night or during off peak hours.

With worldwide petroleum production peaking last year we have to gear up for alternatives. I find the off peak electric option appealing as a cost effective second choice. The above mentioned petroleum peaking also is creating renewed interest in nuclear power. Those of us who lived through the "Three Mile Island" and even worse "Chernobyl" incidents know the complications and fears related to nuclear reactors.

We need tighter conservation measures that strictly limit decorative (or asthetic) lighting and other wasteful practices in order to free up off peak electricity as a cost effective secondary heat source.

As I slowly convert my home to 100% infloor within a very tight envelope I will use an off peak electrical source as my secondary heat source. While it in no way will handle the load at design temp. It will get me by during most load conditions.

Electrical generation is indeed wasteful, yet the waste after you take out the generation and transmission factors can be greatly reduced by tighter rules about usage.

This is why I cringe when snowmelt systems are mentioned here. Or gas fireplaces for looks not heat. I can only justify snowmelts when they are getting there heat source from waste heat or in emergency type applications like hospital helicopter pads or emergency room driveways etc.

This is all new to us as we encounter the "green movement" and learn to implement it.I feel it is long overdue and will create great opportunities for those who embrace it!

Rich K.


Make Peace our Passion while Supporting our Troops!

jp_2

green electricity

the only green electricity I know of is PV systems, wind powered systems or hydro!

with all the money to run an electric boiler, spend greener money on more insulation and a less efficient boiler.

scott markle_2

leave it to hot rod

Leave it to hot rod to be aware of such a thing.Your a well of information.

I'm convinced that the way in which we regulate heating (load matching) can have significant impact on energy use. In this sense a sophisticated modulating electric unit could have conservation advantages that would somewhat offset it's otherwise dismal environmental impact. This might be especially beneficial in micro load situations for which conventional(combustion)boilers are not available. However Don't forget that coal "the dirtiest hydrocarbon" is the largest contributer to the generation mix. It's also part of how electric costs are kept low... coal is cheap fuel.

I had not really considered the off peak issue. Thanks for drawing that to my attention. I didn't realize they had to keep the turbines spinning(or whatever)to such an extent. Seems to me that if this day-night capacity generation issue is as significant as you say the logical way to use this energy would be charging batteries for electric vehicles. Although if an all out transportation conversion was made it would quickly out strip this night time surplus.

gary bettcher

Steffes Corp.

Steffes makes a great Off Peak storage that can be used as a boiler or forced air. Here in north east Minnesota our Off Peak rate is only 3.5 per KW , oil or gas will never come close to being that cheap.

Rich Kontny_5

You Nailed It

This was my point, the utilities are geared for full capacity and design their capabilities around that. Sparsely populated northern Minnesota is a very good example where they have huge capacity for mining and daytime usage while wasting the steam into cooling ponds or lakes at night.

We need to go after that wasted steam by having economical off peak electrical rates to attract users to the advantages of off peak heating.


Thanks Rich

Dave_4

Yeah but...

"Off peak" is only from 3 a.m. to 4 a.m. Sundays...

(;-o)

gary bettcher

Off Peak

Here where I live in North East Minnesota we get up to 9 hours of Off Peak .

Rich Kontny_5

Soon

We will be educated better about the domestic power grid and how it is strained in the heavily populated areas and underused in more sparsely populated areas.

While most of us are up to speed regarding new residential and commercial heating and cooling equipment, we are left somewhat in the dark (pun intended) about total electric capacity nationwide and the entire national and even international power grid.(Canada and the US do buy power from each other and I suspect that Mexico may)

Ken is obvoiusly from one of those populated areas, while Gary and I are from Northern Minnesota and Wisconsin. While utilities have been foes in the past with some of there marketing practices,we will have to partner with them in joint efforts to better utilize energy.


Rich K.

Rich Kontny_5

Soon

We will be educated better about the domestic power grid and how it is strained in the heavily populated areas and underused in more sparsely populated areas.

While most of us are up to speed regarding new residential and commercial heating and cooling equipment, we are left somewhat in the dark (pun intended) about total electric capacity nationwide and the entire national and even international power grid.(Canada and the US do buy power from each other and I suspect that Mexico may)

Ken is obvoiusly from one of those populated areas, while Gary and I are from Northern Minnesota and Wisconsin. While utilities have been foes in the past with some of there marketing practices,we will have to partner with them in joint efforts to better utilize energy.


Rich K.