Help me understand which brands are worth spending more on?

Dave_4

Are low water content boilers better/worse in radiant floor applications, or does it not matter? The Solaia has about half the water content as a Buderus g115.

Kim_3

Comparing quotes for three different brands of Hot Water Boilers

We've had three companies come to our house to provide quotes to remove our existing Hot Water Boiler and Oil Burner and hook up a new unit to current codes. Each are well established in the community and would provide our ongoing delivery of oil along with any needed service.

From least expensive to most expensive we were presented proposals for:
1) Solaia 4 section oil fired boiler model SL4100 with Riello oil burner, two year service policy.
2) Smith Cast Iron boiler model 8W4, with Carlin Flame retention oil burner, two years parts/service.
3) Weil-McLain cast iron forced hot water boiler model #PWGO-5, which includes a new Riello burner and five year guarantee.

This our first time making a purchase like this, and since we have small children a reliable product is very important to us. We live in Massachusetts so it gets very cold!!

Can you help me understand the quality of each of these brands? Is it worth paying extra for Weil-Mclain?

Thanks so much!

bill nye_3

How

How will you be heating your domestic hot water? Will your new boiler be providing the hot water or do you have a seperate water heater?

Kim_3

Domestic Hot Water

We have a 60-gallon "Super-Stor" that was new last year for domestic hot water that the boiler would be hooked up to.

bill nye_3

Good

Very good. I didn't think the Solaia had provision for making hot water and knew the others were.

The 5 section W/M seems a little bigger than the other two, was a heatloss done on the house? In other words how did the companies determine what size boiler was required?

It is very hard to say, they are all good products, all should give you years of reliable service. I guess it would come down to the installer and the quality of the installation. I guess I really can't help.

Tony_25

Oil fired boilers

Kim, I have been working on Oil fired boilers for 27 years. I installed a Peerles WBV cast iron boiler with a Riello burner in our house 4 years ago. Its gets confusing picking a boiler that will last for years. Every body has a different idea which is the best. Its like buying a car. Don't forget the boiler has to cleaned and serviced after the installing company warranty has expired. You want to get a boiler that will be easily cleaned. And the sections are not so tight that you have back pressure down the road. My 2nd choice would be the Weil Mclain.

[Deleted User]

Don't buy the boiler...

Buy the contractor who is willing to back the boiler up.

Do your home work. Ask for references from all three contractors. Call the people and ask them about any "issues" they've experienced and what kind of response the contractors provided. Ask to go out and actually look at the isntalls. Take pictures. Bring the pictures back here to the wall if you can't discern the differences in a quality install versus a blow and go job.

Remember, you are making a long term committment to the servicing contractor, AND the equipment he will be delivering. Make sure you don't mind living with them for the next 30 years or so...

The equipment is ONLY as good as the people standing behind it.

ME

Robert O'Brien

The

triple pass Solaia(Biasi) is a superior design to single pass pin type boilers.I would use some type of outdoor reset as well,payback will be relatively short.

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Joe Brix

The Solaia

is the better design of the 3 models. The 3 pass boilers are normally quieter and are rated at a higher efficency.

Scott Larabee

The three pass boiler (Solaia) is more efficient, better insulated, and easier to mantain. That being said, a great boiler with a lousy install makes for a lousy system!

I would definately choose the three pass design. If you are not comfortable with the low bidder offering the Solaia, I would ask one of the other contractors about a three pass boiler. I don't know the pricing of the Solaia, but typically a three pass boiler is more expensive to purchase. The dealer with the highest price may be your best choice, or they may have the same quality and just charge more!

The three brands of triple pass boilers I have experience with are the W/M Ultra, Buderous, and the Burnham MPO. All of these boilers are top quality. As far as the Solaia you mentioned, I have heard nothing but good things about them as well.

Scott

Steamhead (in transit)

I agree

go with the Solaia. We have installed several of these 3-pass boilers and like them very much. They also have powered gas burners available from the factory, so you would not need to replace the boiler if you want to switch fuels (this is also true for the Smith). And their 3-pass design makes them much easier to service than the other two.

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Dave_4

Kim,

When you are a hammer, everything in life looks like a nail.

If you sell oil, you will recommend boilers that are oil-fired ONLY!!!

If you are an "independent" contractor - as most of us here are, you sell what the customer wants - AFTER YOU EXPLAIN THE PROS AND CONS ABOUT ALL FUELS - or brands of boilers.

What ME (Mark Eatherton) says is absolutely true, "The contractor is what's most important." However, if that contractor sells only oil, we have a hammer/nail situation.

Oil @ 90+ / barrel - and rising, is reason enough to explore other options. Natural gas and propane being among those very viable alternatives.

There's nothing wrong with oil. Except if other options are intentionally left off the table.

Caveat Emptor?

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tim smith

Here's a question

Is there no gas available? The oil companies may very likely not even bring this up if they don't do gas, but maybe if gas available you should be looking into a mod/con boiler if your system is water. Just a thought. :0

Kim_3

There is no gas line in my area. Oil is the only option.

Does anyone have anything bad to say about Solaia? Thus far it seems the most highly recommended, and considering its the least expensive option I feel like I'm missing something!

Dave_4

Kim-

we had the same experience w/ quotes. As a HO, it was a tiresome trying to determine differences b/t boilers. You could go w/ propane, but historically in NE, it's about 30% or more pricier. The gas company wanted $10k to extend the main to our house...ha! We decided to go the "no-name" route (Biasi 3-pass boiler).

a gardenweb friend!

Steamhead (in transit)

Not really bad

but we did have one come thru with an unstable oil burner. However, when I got in touch with the factory they got right on it, got the burner manufacturer involved, and took care of us- it was a 7-section unit, and we ended up switching from the Beckett NX to the CF375 which is now the standard Beckett burner on that size (they also come with Riello oil burners and HeatWise oil and gas burners). So the Solaia is well-supported too.

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Jeff_92

Forget the name and look at the design

As with everything we get tied up with name recognition my feeling is to go beyond that and look at the design. As posted above the three pass design will provide better access for cleaning and a boiler that will hold the flue gases in the boiler longer to allow for better heat transfer.

The other thing to mention is that the B-30 casting (Solaia) has something built into the casting called “Recalculating Flue Gas Technology” fancy term for saying that it pulls 30-40% of the flue gases back over the flame to cool the flame and reduce the No2 emissions making this boiler a low NOX unit.

You also want to look at total system efficiency not just simple AFUE ratings. The small triple pass “low mass” design (casting weighs under 300lbs with less than 4 gallons of water) allows the boiler to come up to temperature much faster then larger heavier boiler ( most weigh 550+lbs with more than 12 gallons of water) you must expend energy heating all that cast iron along with the extra water content.

The Solaia boiler also offers a nice add on control for short money that will reduce your fuel usage by approximately 15% and also reduce your burner cycling by up to 30%. This reduction in burner cycling also reduces your No2 emissions and reduces that amount of soot build up inside the boiler. This control only looks at the supply water temperature and matches the boiler load better to the system load reducing short cycling in the boiler. With this indoor reset control you do not have to be concerned about needing to override the control if you want full capacity from the boiler as you do with outdoor reset controls. There is also no concern for improper placement of an outdoor sensor.

And as said above you need to be comfortable with your contractor as he is your first line of service.

Happy shopping!!!!

Glenn Sossin_2

Seeing as your stuck with Oil

I am going out to see these guys next week. We are looking at this as an option to offer customers stuck with oil. It seems like this might be an option worth considering.

Anyone have any experience good or bad with this product??

Joannie_15

Kim

Please don't miss the very important parts of this post that tell you to buy the contractor and not the boiler (so much). Any of the boilers will be crap if you don't have the right person installing it. I get the feeling you're overlooking that, and are only focusing on which boiler.

[Deleted User]

Ken has...

http://forums.invision.net/Message.cfm?FApp=2&Message_ID=345756&IsPrint=yes

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User]

link test

see this thread