Average Dog?

DanHolohan

this, which may help: <a href="http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/194/1/99"target="_blank">Hot Dog</a>

There's also <a href="http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/49/6/979"target="_blank">this</a>

It appears that the heat loss comes through breathing, and whether the dog is active or not makes a difference, as you would expect.

Scott Kohler_2

Average Dog?

I'm calculating a load f/ a kennel and need to know the average BTU output of a dog. Wondering if anybody has run into this problem/question before.

Bob R

Is it a chiwawa or a great dane?

Scott Kohler_2

Average Dog?

This is a kennel so I'm sure we have the occasion f/ both. I guessing there's a range but have no idea what the range is.

Paul Fredricks_3

Makes your head spin reading that stuff.

How about a SWAG? I always figured 600 BTU per person. Some dogs are in the 120 lb range which could be considered the average weight for a person in an office space. Other dogs weigh 10 lbs. If they don't have more large dogs than small then we can figure the average dog weighs 1/2 what the average person weighs. I guess you could figure 1/2 the BTU's as well? Though a kennel of dogs all barking and pacing when someone walks in could probably up that number a little.

What about mating season. Would the dogs put out more heat in the spring than in the fall? Every male dog I've ever seen seems to be in heat all the time, so maybe that squashes that thought.

Through no scientific reason, I get the feeling that dogs don't tend to radiate heat as much as people do, but that's probably wrong.

My guess is 300 BTU per dog. IMO. Brad White, you've got to have some input on this.

How about throwing a 55 lb dog in a tub of water and seeing how long it takes for the water temperature to rise 1 degree.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Dogs, like other furry mammals, use their fur as their primary means of temperature regulation. When sedentary or lightly active they simply don't loose much heat. Believe it or not, dogs adapted to extreme cold actually fare better in extreme heat than dogs adapted to more temperate environments because that fur is just as effective at keeping heat out as it is keeping it in...

Since dogs (and every other furry mammal except horses) do not sweat, they have to have some other cooling mechanism when their activity level forces them to give off excessive internal heat. The primary way dogs do this is via evaporative cooling when they pant.

Unless excited for some reason, the dogs I've seen in kennels tend to pretty much lie around inside and use the outdoor runs for exercise.

Something tells me that heat output of the dogs will be inconsequential.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

You're forgetting about their fur Paul. Unlike "naked apes", dogs don't have to regulate their temperature via an extremely emissive covering of bare flesh.

Presuming you accept evolution, a naked human being can only survive in such a narrow temperature range that I suspect our ability to adapt our thermal environment was the single largest evolutionary force affecting the development of our intelligence.

Somehow it seems rather easy to imagine a very lucky mutation that produced a small population of relatively furless primates in an area with a generally perfect temperature range. Since they had a lot of exposed skin area to emit heat, this could actually have been a distinct advantage when the weather was warm allowing increased exertion without overheating.

A gradual shift in climate and/or extreme success that diminished the available food supply would have forced these animals to live in temperature conditions less perfectly suited. Likely the first adaptation was to warmer climates where sweat glands eventually developed. Once forced to live in colder climates I have a feeling that some curious (and cold) animal decided to use the fur of its prey to cover its own body...

Brad White

Who Let the Dogs Out? Woof -Woof -Woof -Woof....

First, Paul, just some commentary on your post (for general use of course, not singling anyone out).

The "600 BTU's per person" number has to be broken down into sensible (radiated off the skin) and latent (perspiration plus ventilation). Seated at rest these numbers can be a ratio of say 245/155 sensible to latent. For an aerobics classroom this can switch to a 710/1090 sensible to latent ratio. Feel the burn!

Point being, if you call it all "BTU's" but it is not matched to your equipment's ability to remove latent heat, you could have a muggy, stinky space. Turn your aerobics studio into your teenager's bedroom.

As Dan pointed out (he is a Pointer after all), much of the dog's heat is lost to respiration, they pant to cool and have no sweat glands to speak of. This is why dogs stick their heads out of car windows, I suppose; to show their brethren that they are cool.

Many college fraternity members have their cooling mechanism located in their buttocks apparently, at least driving around here after a Red Sox game.


Now, heat gain from dogs: My ASHRAE Handbook of Fundamentals has a 22.7 lb. dog emitting heat at a basal rate (the rate of just showing up) at 68.64 BTU's.

For the same dog but moderately active, this goes to 104.8 sensible and 56.4 latent BTU's for a total of 161.2 BTU's per Jack Russell Terrier, while moderately active. (Jack Russell Terriers -moderately active? Yeah, I know.)

A 50 lb. dog has a 124.1 basal rate and a 230.7/124.2 sensible latent ratio for a total of 354.9 BTUH, so a pretty good guess at 300 on your part Paul! You're a good doggy. Here is a biscuit.

More fun stuff (who the heck got to measure this stuff??):

Mouse total BTUH: 1.65 per.

Rabbit total BTUH: 58.33

Rabbit in compromising position, BTUH: 27,520 but it lasts eight seconds.

Cat BTUH: 27.21 basal, 68.02 active. OK....

I think the cat heat output was measured by a scientist dropping the cat into a vat of 55 degree water. Yes, it is true.

Visiting hours are Tuesday, 2-4 and 7-9. Burial (what is left) will private.

Brad

Paul Fredricks_3

Well

I thought it was obvious that I was talking about shaved dogs. Doesn't everyone shave their dog.

What do I know. My wifes a cat person.

Paul Fredricks_3

Hey,

Not bad for an amateur. Guess I'm not as dumb as I look (Watch it!)

But I would never, ever, turn anything or anyone into one of my teenager's rooms. That's more cruel than the 55 degree water.(Shouldn't that be calling hours?)

Mike T., Swampeast MO

How interesting Brad. Thanks! Everything I could find on the web regarding heat loss of dogs had to do with those adapted to extreme cold climates. Two different sources said that they have extremely low heat loss in a very broad temperature range as long as they're fairly inactive.
Any idea of the ambient temperature for the dog ASHRAE losses you posted?

Are you serious about the cat being put into 55F water? If so, I find it utterly amazing that they would loose so little heat. Since cats neither sweat nor pant, I have no idea what they use to regulate temperature. Believe I've read that their outer fur has some bizarre emissivity characteristics, but don't quote me...

Brad White

Just kidding about the cat, Mike...

You do of course remember the 60's band Three Dog Night, right?

That comes from an Inuit term asking how cold it was the night before, how many dogs were allowed into the igloo for warmth.

Tim Lindstrom

This has got to be the funniest thread ever!

Unknown

Brad, may the

Brad, may the leash be never too short or find you on the way to Jay Leno's show....
You cracked me up....

Steve Ebels_3

Brad

Since you're soooooo flippin' smart.........What's a Holstein worth. I always figured around 2,000 btu's for a 1,300# animal. Dairymen around here say about 50,000 apiece when you have 20 of 'em in the milking parlor on a 90* day.

bill nye_3

Paws

Hot Paws, I read somewhere, probably here, that the dogs don't enjoy the radiant warmth as much as we do. They needed to get off of the heated surface to "cool their heels" so to speak.

You need to leave some unheated slab area. If you are doing radiant that is, if not, kindly disregard this post.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Exactly right Bill. Dog's paws are designed to be in contact with cold. They're filled with neatsfoot fat that remains liquid down to temps well below the point where normal fat is a solid.

mark_101

animals

this brings me back to the old joke of whats a henway

Unknown

is it ?

Is it organic or caged fed henway?

Rocky_3

Steve...

"What's a Holstein worth?" I'd say about twice what a "half-stein" is worth, wouldn't you?

Wink Wink, nudge nudge,
Rocky

Darrell

On the other hand, (I skipped the obvious pun there), when I was doing installs I could make your cat sleep anywhere in the house you wanted by doubling up the tubing right there.

And, with my two dogs, you'd need to factor in above average ventilation for reasons beyond temperature.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Brad White

Free Range

Hotpoint.

Delicious.

Joe Billow_6

Brad,

All kidding aside. How many BTUs does an average size horse put out at rest. I done barns in the past but they have had only partial occupancy. This one will have eight horses year round in the heating season.

Mark Hunt_3

Rocky wins the thread!


Wish we could add audibles to these threads.

A rim shot and cymbal crash is called for.

Mark H

John Barba

Free Range?

I prefer the open range, myself

Brad White

My data is for lab animals

but I will gladly check and get back to you. Same for Holsteins and Jerseys. Or Holsteins wearing Jerseys.

Brad White

A Horse is a Horse, of Course, of Course

But I cannot find BTU data for them!

I did find this for cattle though, sort of going to Steve Ebel's question:

Naturally it all depends on ambient temperature. Neat graph which I cannot post due to copyright issues, but the moisture gradient takes a sharp up-tick above 70 degrees F. The waste products are considered (whatever aggie got this job now really knows his, ah, stuff).

Anyway, at 30 degrees, total heat from dairy cattle is 3,750 BTUH of which about 1,800 is moisture.

At 70 degrees, (a hot summer day in Michigan each bovine quadraped emits about 3,100 BTUH, of which about 1,400 is moisture. At 80 degrees the total heat is about 2,900 BTUH of which about 1,850 is moisture.

80 degrees is the last reading, from which I conclude that the technician apparently expired. Rest his soul.

Brad White

Steve-

Throw another Holstein on the barby-

I got some data for you, posted below.

Joe Billow_6

Thanks Brad, I think that I can loosely apply this to horses too. So if I had a 30,000 BTU load at 30F all we need to do is add 9 cows. Might be a good sales pitch for ranchers around here. X amount of cows is equal to one Viessmann boiler as long as you add/remove cows according to demand.

Joe Billow

Timco

Here's my dog...Italian greyhound...

Tim

Steve Ebels_3

I have to admit

That was pretty good, especially considering that his brain is in the dark and frozen solid about 3 months out of the year

realolman

I've never

seen a dog that looked quite like that... Italian, you say?

jp_2

use average amount of

dog food used per day.

find out how many lbs a day, ask dog food manufacturer calorie content per lb. then you have a close idea of btu's per day.

Brad White

Dog Temperature

My best friend is a veterinarian and he tells me that the average dog temperature is 104 F. Thermometer is not oral either and yes, he is still my friend.

Near where I work in some of the restaurants have thermometers there say 140= "rare" I think.

Time to wok the dog.

Sorry

Paul Fredricks_3

I thought it was wok the casbah.

Tony_23

These dogs

Lose very little heat, and like 0. When indoors they always sleep by the door, more for the draft than the guarding of same. They are Great Pyrenees. They don't really care for my radiant floor.

However my Springer loves it, especially in front of the woodstove if I decide to burn it. She's the smart one

realolman

Don't forget to include

the steamers left out on the frosty grass.

realolman

We had

to put our old dog to sleep a couple weeks ago... It was very sad.

I always liked this piece...


When Charles Burden found his favorite dog, Old Drum, dead he vowed someone would pay for the “murder” of his beloved hound.


That someone was his neighbor and brother-in-law, Leonidas Hornsby. Hornsby had recently lost a number of sheep to dogs and vowed death to the first dog found on his property. Old Drum was that dog.

Burden could not let the tragic death of Old Drum go unpunished and the case went to court. The case of Burden vs. Hornsby was tried three times before the final case in Warrensburg , Missouri , on September 23, 1870 . Hornsby took the case to the Court of Common Pleas in Warrensburg, claiming the case against him was circumstantial. It was at this trial that Burden brought in the legal expertise of George Graham Vest. Here is where Vest made his famous eulogy of Old Drum, appealing to dog lovers all over the world. The eulogy won the case for Burden, who was awarded $50 in damages for the loss of Old Drum. Hornsby took the case to the Missouri Supreme Court where the verdict was upheld.

Eulogy of Old Drum
By: George Graham Vest

“Gentlemen of the Jury, the best friend a man has in the world may turn against him and become his enemy. His son or daughter that he has reared with loving care may prove ungrateful. Those who are nearest and dearest to us, those whom we trust with our happiness and our good name, may become traitors to their faith. The money that a man has, he may lose. It flies away from him, perhaps when he needs it the most. A man’s reputation may be sacrificed in a moment of ill-considered action. The people who are prone to fall on their knees to do us honor when success is with us may be the first to throw the stone of malice when failure settles its cloud upon our heads. The one absolutely unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world, the one that never deserts him and the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous is his dog.”

“Gentleman of the Jury, a man’s dog stands by him in prosperity and in poverty, in health and in sickness. He will sleep on the cold ground, where the wintry winds blow and the snow drives fiercely, if only he may be near his master’s side. He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer, he will lick the wounds and the sores that come in encounters with the roughness of the world. He guards the sleep of his pauper master as if he were a prince. When all other friends desert he remains. When riches take wings and reputation fall to pieces, he is as constant in his love as the sun in its journey through the heavens. If fortune drives the master forth an outcast in the world, friendless and homeless, the faithful dog asks no higher privilege than that of accompanying him to guard against danger, to fight against his enemies, and when the last scene of all comes, and death takes the master in its embrace and his body is laid away in the cold ground, no matter if all other friends pursue their way, there by his graveside will the noble dog be found, his head between his paws, his eyes sad but open in alert watchfulness, faithful and true even to death.”

Todd_17

?

You failed to mention the color of the dog. shah