Bubble Insulation....

Unknown

for a snow melt why insulate at all. You should really only insulate the edge so that you do not start gras growing or flowers blooming.

If you insulate horiz then you loose the earth temp early and the slab will actually will freeze faster then the earth... especially on frost nights when you do not have enought moisture to set off your snow switch.

Plus with no snow on top your solar lose is HUGE and snow melts take forever to get rid of that black ise.

wheels

Dr Pepper

Don't want to approve it....

I'm being pushed by the contractor and asked by the architect why I won't approve "TVM Ultra CBF" insulation under a snowmelt sidewalk. See wwwtvmi.com
I've heard all the retoric about how great it and others are, but I still see "bubble wrap" under 4+" of concrete and ask for someone to guarantee it's not going to be flat as foil in a year. Still haven't seen it. Any good data????

Glenn Sossin_2

Your correct to not approve

Read the attached article.

I agree with Steve about insulating on the sides, but I don't agree about the bottom of the slab. You should put something underneath to act as a thermal block. The heat energy will travel from hot to cold if you don't obstruct it somehow. Thats the purpose if the insulation - to retard the transfer of heat energy to the earth, keeping it in your slab to melt the snow.

There is a relatively inexpensive product that is easily installed called Barrier insulation. It goes down like carpet padding. We have sold well over 200 rolls over the past 2 years - all our customers are happy with it. I strongly recommend it as long as your application does not utilize idling.

The actual R-Value of this product is not very high, but it is enough that the heat energy transferred downward is minimal after the typical 4-6 hours snow melt cycle when compared the energy transferred to the slab.

If idling is a potential, then I would suggest 2" of blue board under your slab.

Good luck

Glenn

Two of the pictures are of the barrier being installed in our new building addition. It is very easy - unrolls like carpet padding. It has a 3" wide flap with peel back adhesive strip to hold the two pieces together.

Dr Pepper

Thanks, that's what I needed....

I didn't mention that we spec 1" of 400psi Extruded Polystyrene under the whole slab. As to "Barrier" it looks interesting, but I'm going to have to look at it more closely. On this job, it's going in with ExPoly. I really appreciate the data, Thanks again...!!!

Dr Pepper

Found a nice link from a guy named RB

http://www.healthyheating.com/Page 55/Page_55_o_bldg_sys.htm

Seems a Mr. Holohan and others have compiled a nice catch of data on the subject.

Thank you very much gentlemen...!!!!!

Don Regan

Bubble Insulation alternative

Not to sound like an add here but check this out please. We do a lot of Ice Melt.
www.crete-heat.com

Glenn Sossin_2

It is an ad ...

and I think its a good product - certainly better than the bubble stuff. Who is your rep for LI area? I'd be interested in talking with him.

Glenn

Richard_6

Please contact...

Wallace Eannace Assoc. @ 516-454-9300

Dr Pepper

snow melt insulation

Don, I like it, but I'm not going to spec it because (1) I only call for 1"EPS and (2) if the contractor wants to do more or easier it's OK with me so long as it meets spec. I can't cut out the guy that is used to wire ties and mesh or the EPS clips. Nice stuff.

Richard_6

1 & 2\" EPS

Crete-Heat is available in both 1" & 2" EPS along with different PSI's for those who think they need more PSI. All the info is on the wes site.

Thank you, Don