Steam talk....

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

2.31' of "lift" for every 1-PSI

First time I saw that was in a printing shop with modines. Walking through the plant, I spied them and the ceiling-mounted supply/return. Figured it had to be hot water. Cleaning the boiler (oil unit), I noticed the gauge glass. Back to plant floor to look back up at the modines. ????? That's when I also noticed each one had a steam trap.

Back to the boiler - no wonder the pressuretrol was set for a min of 2-PSI! That took care of the roughly 4.5' of lift needed.

Timco

"steam cannot move through a water seal as long as you keep the pressure low." If all the traps are working correct, there will be little pressure in the return to begin with, and no pressure in the return eventually. (atmospheric vent from collection box)

On a job I am on right now, a few basement rads' returns leave the trap, and run up to the ceiling of the apartment, and back to the boiler room. Are these rads functioning? I count 5 rads with a return that rises over the rad, and drain back from there, and one return that comes in low and turns up into the condensate box. How does the condensate get up the pipe?

Thanks, Tim

Steamhead (in transit)

Sure there isn't

a tee somewhere after the traps of those rads, that drains the condensate? The pipe rising to the ceiling would then only handle air.

You'd have to build up some serious pressure to get condensate to lift that high.

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Timco

These are nasty units and there is bunched up carpet in the corners...there just might be a drain line. Bottom line is rads need to drain slightly pitched or down into the return, correct?

Steamhead (in transit)

Correct

water still flows downhill, even in Vapor.

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Timco

In this picture, the bottom left pipe is a return that serves two 1/2" returns in the boiler room. As it reaches the collection box, it rises a few inches to reach the box as you can see. Also, to the bottom right is a trap, which serves a rad behind the boiler. It raises about a foot into that same return. If 1lb steam will lift 2.3', then these rises should not matter if I set this baby to 1/2 or 1 lb steam or so? It may need 1lb as it is 3 stories and fairly spread out...

Tim

RonWHC

Don't think so.

The traps Dave mentioned were probably Bucket Traps. They can be used to raise condensate to a higher level. Radiator traps are different animals.

Looks like someone did some creative piping to connect that condensate unit. Is there a hole in the floor under the steel plate the cond. unit sits on? If so, that is where the returns used to drip.

Someone figured it was easier to service a pump @ floor level. Unfortunately, condensate can't adapt. In floor condensate units are available. They're just more expensive than what is there now.

Timco

Yes, there is a dention basin under the steel plate the box sits on. Can you think of a way to incorporate a trap off a tee or some way of draining the condensate from the line that comes in low, and leave that return? I can raise the rad behind the boiler, but that return comes out of the walls...maybe tear into the walls and see if it can be raised...but if it cannot be raised, any ideas besides lowering the collection box? All other returns drain correct.

Thanks, Tim