Steam Boiler Replacement Options: Advice needed

Boilerpro_5

I've done work for another engineer in Chicago. I love those neat old vapor systems. Boiler sizing for vapor systems allows for alot more "creativity" than on typical steam systems. Two pipe systems in general are quite a bit more flexible on boiler sizing, and if you are willing to do the extra work, can be resized to meet the current heat loads, gving a nice boost in efficiency.

Where in Chicago are you located? I grew up in Beverly Hills.

BTW I am quite a bit under 70.

Boilerpro

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zippy

Steam Boiler Replacement Options: Advice needed

Someone out there may remember my 'big honkin pipe' post a couple of years ago.

Solutions worked well. But gas prices have gone crazy. System is a 1906 two pipe, combination vapor (front of the house) and vacuum (back of the house-big honkin pipe was determined to be a collector with a suction tee on top of it.)

150Kbtuh McLein Weil boiler circa 1951

What are landmines in replacing the boiler straight up with a new higher eficiency one?

Once again am hearing the siren song of converting to hot water. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks for any comments/advice.

mike jones_2

twin 200 000 btu boilers with a tech mar control

we plan to post some questions regarding our own gas fired seam boiler replacement and saw that no one answered your thread yet. Hopefully our post will generate some interest that might help one of us.

a neighbor just had his 500 000 btu steam boiler replaced with twin 200 000 btu boilers with a tech mar control so that they don’t need to fire up both boilers when its mild weather in November. Can anyone tell us if this is as smart as it sounds in terms of trying to make gas steam efficient . it is a one zone one pipe gas fired steam system for 10 apartments.

Steamhead (in transit)

These jobs are different

in their size. I like the idea of staging boilers, but not sure it would be cost-effective on a 150,000 BTUH job.

If you plan on staying with gas, don't get another atmospheric boiler. Get a wet-base boiler with a power gas burner. This type, generally used with oil firing, surrounds the flame almost completely with water-backed cast iron. On an atmospheric boiler the burners are completely below the cast-iron sections, so much heat is lost from the base.

Interestingly enough, the AFUE ratings ignore this loss. DOE doesn't think it's a problem. But it stands to reason that heat lost from the base doesn't get to the radiators, and is therefore wasted.

Another advantage of this type is that you can switch it from gas to oil and back, by just having a pro change the burner and set it up properly. So if the price of gas goes crazy, you can switch without buying a new boiler. Competition is good.

Not all boiler manufacturers offer this wet-base boiler/power gas burner combination. One that does is Smith, on their 8 series which is sold as the G8 when gas-fired.

Oh, and don't even think about converting to hot-water. The increased operating pressure might cause leaks, damaging the house. Some of the pipes may be too small to circulate water properly, so they'd have to be replaced. And after all these and other headaches, you wouldn't gain hardly any efficiency that you couldn't gain by putting in a good steam boiler and further optimizing the system.

Keep the Vapor!

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zippy

Mine is alot smaller than the other. As an engineer who has learned old steam systems as a matter of necessity on our 'dinosaur', Doesn't staging cause a problem with adequately getting steam to all the rads?

It is my understanding that the boiler size is driven by the connected EDR. If it is staged, that would mean that at low load, like november, the steam would need to be sized as though it is January?

On the vapor, once you get it under control it is really pretty decent. Our system predates the first patented steam systems by a couple of years so it is one of those really custom numbers. Scares the c**p out of most of the boiler guys who have come in to service it.

Also, it looks like there was a condensing radiator for venting which someone removed. I added a house vent on the vapor side of the house return and it has worked like a champ.

My problem is getting the right replacement boiler since none of the boiler guys I have had in to start planning the exercise understand the system. I don't want to spend several grand and get something that doesn't work because a boiler guy is under 70 years old :-)

Steamhead (in transit)

Where

did you say you were located?

"Steamhead"

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zippy

Chicago

Steamhead (in transit)

I agree

Boilerpro is the man for the job.

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mike jones_2

you sure read my mind. we were just told a gas gun )power burner) was the only way to go, and forget the twins for steam. problem is, like you said, tough to find the rite size. we used to have 750 sq.ft. of radiators but have added several to total 900 sq.ft.

our old boiler was rated for 938 sq. ft. and 375000 btu gas input - atmospheric, 50 years old 1 pipe steam.

should we make sure our plumber oversizes by a certain percentage of error since i imagine ratings are based on ideal circumstances. thanks for your help!

Steamhead (in transit)

You'd be looking at a small commerial boiler

for that load. Burnham V9 series, Weil-McLain 80 series, Smith 19A and others- I believe all are available with power gas burners. Low-high-low firing is a plus if it's available in the size you need.

No need to oversize, the pickup factor is built into the Net and Square Feet ratings.

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zippy

boiler replacement

Boilerpro

Oddly enough

Beverly Hills

John L

if we can help you can e-mail me . been in the Chicago market 40+, done a lot of steam systems. be glad to be of assistance.

John L.

mike jones_2

i know bigger doesnt mean better, but

thanks. all 3 offer 3 sections with 850 to 925 sf. of steam. our 900 sf does not include 2 risers for bathrooms, 5 stories tall with no radiators on them, and only the cellar risers are insulated due to lack of access to apartment risers.

if we go with the larger 3 section at 925 sf of steam 450,000 btu, Smith boiler, we would never be able to add several radiators to a planned addition without a separate system. (even though this is surprisingly much more btu than our ancient boiler)

i know bigger doesnt mean better, but if we get a 1200 sf 4 section, could we fire it lower for now and avoid problems like short cycling?