Standing Pilot vs. Electronic Ignition

Steamhead (in transit)

in some areas, gas line pressure drops noticeably when it gets real cold. This results in standing pilots going out, and the usual procedure is to crank them way up to compensate.

With EI, the pilot is lit at the beginning of the cycle and shut down at the end, so if it has to be set higher to compensate for lower gas pressure, it won't waste so much on the off cycle.

With regard to stack dampers, no one seems to know how that 1% figure was obtained. I bet it wasn't on an old coal-designed chimney that can pull pets and small children up to the roof. Such a chimney can pull enough air thru the boiler (draft hood notwithstanding) to cool it down almost completely between firing cycles. This is where a damper would save the most.

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David Nadle

Help me decide

I thought EI was a no-brainer for my new boiler but some of the pros I've talked to don't like them. One said that years from now it could be hard to find the replacement part. Another said the pilot keeps moisture away from the boiler's outer surface, which is worth the few dollars a month it costs to run a pilot.

I figure the replacement issue can be addressed by getting a spare and sticking it on a shelf. The latter claim is interesting. I'd like to read all of your opinions before I decide.

Unknown

pilot

If that's the only appliance with a pilot on the meter, you'll not save anything. There's a minimum monthly charge on your gas bill.

I like the pilot that keeps the iron dry theory, myself. It depends a little bit on how dry the area is where the boiler is installed. If it's always dry in the area, there wouldn't be a noticeable difference.

Noel

me_19

Is dead too late for the hospital?

Eric Johnson

Spiders

I've heard that spiders like to make nests in idle natural gas nozzles, which is why I like to keep my pilot lit year-around.

Jim Pompetti

which way to go

My though is that a pilot is a waste of natural resources

geoboy

This begs the question...

Many Wallies have stated on this forum that a boiler should be kept warm year-round. This implies that a low-limit aquastat (a la 8124) be utilized. It also means that a considerable amount of gas is used just to perform the keep-warm function.

In a cold start application, doesn't the use of a standing pilot perform that function to some degree, especially when combined with a vent damper, with considerably less waste of resources?

J.C.A._3

I believe.....

That Timmie MacElwain said studies show that the savings are few(1%) with the damper, and keeping a pilot lit is useful for heat only applications for keeping the iron dry.

If you are going to use an indirect for your hot water, I'd go with electronic. As long as the heater is run once (even) every few days, the vapor will be kept at bay. As far as the controls becoming obsolete....I don't think anything new, will NOT be adaptable to lots of equipment Heck...think of all the upgrade kits available today for the various manufacturers, and that theory just doesn't hold water.(so to speak)

On a personal note, I can safely say that EI is extremely reliable. Very few failures,and if you READ THE MANUALS they are real easy to troubleshoot and exchange if it does happen.Just My .02 cents. Chris

David Nadle

Two things...

1. I'm asking in regards to a one-pipe steam system. No pumps or coils here, but I think you make a good point. If the system has a higher duty cycle the gas savings benefit of EI decreases.

2. "Begs the question" means "argues a conclusion that is already contained in the premise." "Raises the question" is better phrase. (Sorry...it's a pet peeve.)

geoboy

I agree that if your main burner is running a higher percentage of the time, the additional gas used by the pilot becomes increasingly insignificant.

However, even in a lower duty-cycle scenario (such as using an indirect during the summer), I question whether the extra fuel consumed by the pilot is as wasteful as ofter presumed. For example, the burner will fire to heat the indirect to setpoint, then shut down. During the idle period, BTUs are shed to the environment, either up the chimney or into the surrounding basement. During the next firing those BTUs must be made up by running the burner for a longer period than would otherwise be required if the boiler were already warm(er). I'm simply questioning (not arguing) whether a study has been performed as to how much additional fuel would be consumed by reheating the boiler with the main burner as opposed to using the additional heat imparted to the boiler by the pilot flame. I suppose this boils down (no pun inteded) to a measurement of the actual standby loss.

Tombig_2

SP vs EI

I agree with Noel. If your steamer hangs out in a damp basement thru the summer months it may be a good idea to go with a standing pilot. Exactly how much summertime surface condensation occurs and how much corrosion ensues is a tough question. I know one thing. It's cheaper to run a pilot all summer than a dehumidifier in the boiler room.

If it's a residence and the boiler room is adjacent to a conditioned space...1% savings is 1% savings. Go with the EI.

My two cents

hot_rod

if the basement is damp, maybe a de-humidifier

would be a better choice.

The piliot only keeps a percentage of the iron inside dry. Controls, jacketing, not to mention all the wood components of you home really shouldn't be left in a damp enviroment.

Mold never sleeps

hot rod

David Nadle

The basement is not all that damp

This is a residence -- unfinished basement. I wouldn't say it's damp.

I read some things online today stating that the pilot keeping the boiler dry theory is a myth, but I couldn't find what I'd call an authoritative source for that claim. What hot rod wrote makes sense to me.

Utica claims 78% for standing pilot vs. 82% for EI. That's a bigger difference than I expected. EI is pulling ahead.

Boilerpro_5

HR, I've seen otherwise

With newer boilers with a stack damper, I see the water temp sit upward 100F or more in the summer with a properly adjusted pilot. I certainly agree about the overall moisture issue, if your basement is damp, definitely get a dehumidifier. Also cover up any floor you can with heavy plastic vapor barriers...they help keep the basement much drier without using any energy. Keep the plastic away from the boiler and other burning appliance...it flammable. Also, Its much more comfortable in the summer upstairs when the humidity is lower due to the dehumidifier in the basement.

Boilerpro

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Mitch_4

Interesting

While a pilot can keep the heat exchanger warmer, its temperture will still be below the condensing point of the flue gasses generated by the pilot. The heat exchanger to input ratio, is more likely (in my opinion) to generate moisture in the HE area.

In addition, the pilot is in only one section of the casting...

my thoughts..Prefer EI as for parts..I can still get dang near any assembly I have ever needed for units 25+ years. (mostly furnaces inmy area)

Daniel_15

I agree with the gas line pressure drop as it happens to me twice in the last two years. The pilot on that burner was not a good flame anyways. What a pain to re-ignite on that old wayne conversion burner, going through three thermocouples, dusty knees, and an aching thumb. I have th EI now. Spiders made there home in the standing pilot of that burner assembly and only with some serious banging on the end did the pilot re-ignite after the webs and junk was loosened.
This is by far not the best scenario to happen in the middle of February in central MA. Before I knew what was what on a steam boiler I waited for an Nstar man for 24+ hours. . . .

Constantin

Do standing pilots dry that much?

I remember the triple-pilot light stove in our rental kitchen in Arlington quite well - it made the kitchen that much hotter come summertime. So, whether one would notice the effect on the gas bill or not, it does heat! In the basement with its usual lower temperatures, the effect would not be as noticeable. Plus, there is a huge flue to carry the heat (and hopefully the combustion products) out.

Me, I'd consider the location and the circumstances. If I were to install a gas-fired boiler in my home, it would be a model with intermittent ignition. On the other hand, if this system was for a vacation cottage in the middle of nowhere that frequently sits unattended, a millivolt system is perhaps a better option than a intermittent boiler with a UPS. KISS and all that.