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Will a four way valve -

EGADS! Presuming "typical" baseboard that boiler can put out about 3x more than the baseboard can emit!!!

Reset and a 4-way valve to "protect" the presumed standard boiler [might] help with the comfort problem, but can you say, "HIDEOUS SHORT-CYCLING"?

To borrow from NRT.rob you MIGHT be able to use a "low-loss header like device" with the BIG--and I DO MEAN BIG--buffer tank in series connected on the boiler side and isolated from the emitters but again presuming a conventional boiler such would turn the [presumed conventional] boiler into the biggest and most efficient emitter <I>straight up the flue</I>!

I hate to say this but if the electric is "ultra-low" why not use such on the first floor as well?


  • Glen
    Glen Member Posts: 855
    solve this probelm?

    I just looked at a commercial (printing plant) system. 155 feet of baseboard, 325 000 btuh of boiler. The plan was to include the second floor on the boiler - but with ultra low elect prices - it has never been done. So the boiler is grossly over sized.
    Is using a four way with OD reset viable? It would reduce the spikes in the pressroom - and maintain a high temp in the boiler loop - minimizing short cycling? I've not used a 4 way for this application - any other ideas? A wall hung modcon would be perfect - but has been rejected by the owner.
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    hard to picture the piping arrangement due to...

    an encroaching condensation haze blocking out the depth perception of my crystal ball...*~/:)

    however , i going to go with a Quite likely on that one and would suggest indoor feed back from some of the work stations and a heat loss before whacking away at the piping of the existing system.

    lets just think about this a second for the heck of it...

    say this particular boiler has had the misfortune of running for a few seasons and due to the current over sight of the state boiler inspector...the site has not had a visit recently and the maint. guys been on forced sabbatical and is now working at Mc chickens making change for 10 dollar bills with a few Clinton 3's :) whatever... say the thing has very luckily survived this long with out being cleaned and is churning away at 60% eff...40% zooming out the stack during combustion cycles..ok
    that would probably mean that the stack losses alone would heat the entire building ...hmmmm.... what might be a good deal would, for the price of the work being done, Lose the boiler ,size one in the Vicinity of 80000 and call it good.:) that is a WAG knowing nothing about what the actual deal is that the building is encountering ... can you feel the difference in the boiler rooms ambient temp already?

    the first years ROI would likely pay for the boiler.

  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Current System


  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,154
    grossly oversized

    for that baseboard load.

    My ONLY option would be a replacement boiler. Even a correctly sized cast iron or maybe a Lochinvar copper two stage "Solution" would be a less expensive option.

    hot rod
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Glen
    Glen Member Posts: 855
    I thought -

    you guys would get a smile from that. Yes - two circuits in a printing shop, std BB, std atmospheric Laars boiler. Only 10 years young too - they sized it for future expansion (not sure what the owner meant by that though). Can this thing short cycle or what!!! So now we are up to 8 bucks a gigajoule (948 200 btu's) for NG - and the owner can see his meter spinning like a machine in Vegas. Moreover - its power vented - the whole shop knows the cycles per minute like the back of their hands! I hate being the bearer of bad news - but a new boiler is required I think.
  • Glen
    Glen Member Posts: 855

    a Navy term - isn't it?
  • Larry (from OSHA)
    Larry (from OSHA) Member Posts: 717
    yes it is (but not just navy)

    but I'm surprised that the presses don't add enough heat to the place to take care of the plant area. How big is this place anyway? Also, I would think that if the presses have local ventilation to take care of the vapors, there must be a significant makeup air system. Heating that air might be a better way to go. Just guessing without seeing what is there. In any event, good luck with that.

  • Mike T., Swampeast MO

    Yes it's Navy or Marines (where I learned).

    Nice thing is that the "R" can stand for "recognition", "retribution", "reconnaissance" or "recovery" but in the end means the same...

    I have the greatest sympathy for General Petraeus. He [seems] to be faced with a FUBAR yet he's duty-bound not only to obey any order he deems lawful but to ensure such lawful orders are positively conveyed to those he commands.
  • Glen
    Glen Member Posts: 855
    and I thought -

    it was the first letter that was subject to some interpretation! :-)
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,947
    Having been in like situations before......

    One (you the contractor) usually winds up taking a BEATING!!!! in every way when you try to "work" with what they have there. All intentions on your part are good, but there could come a time when YOU become part of the "problem" (in their eyes). I'm with Hot Rad: New & Properly-sized boiler or NOT INTERESTED. Good Luck and keep us posted. Mad Dog

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  • Mark Hunt_3
    Mark Hunt_3 Member Posts: 184

    your political commentary is duly noted. feel better?
  • Glen
    Glen Member Posts: 855
    I generally

    try to avoid that - but fail miserably some days. "profanity is a weak mind trying to express itself" David Roy Braithewaite, Master Plumber. And the Yorkshire gentleman that got me into this trade.
    But yes - I do feel better! :-)
This discussion has been closed.