What's wrong with this picture (ME)

Al Letellier_9

DUH.......what is really scary is the fact that this happens way too often. I bet I've seen the same thing at least a dozen times in the last couple of years. Makes one wonder what is being taught to the "newbees"

[Deleted User]

Customer complaints...

1. Boiler short cycles a LOT.

2. Exterior rooms never seem to warm up (thermostat central core location)

3 Utility bills seem high.

Why is it that we were the only ones to measure the baseboard (60K btuH connected to a 180 KBtuh boiler) and were the only ones to note the interesting thermostat location?

I promised her a minimum 30% reduction in fuel consumption.

Whassup wid da competiton?

ME

Jim Franklin

Hi, tech support? I need a new keyboard. Yes, I know it's the second one in a week. Must be a water leak around my desk, might want to contact facilities as well...

Perry_3

What competition...

The real question is why are those other people's marketing skills better than you and others who know how to do the job right?

Perry

jp_2

hey

bigger is always better, we can super size that for you!

Steve Ebels_3

Sad to say

Very often I find it has nothing to do with marketing skills of one company vs another. In a lot of instances it just boils down to the fact that the homeowner just calls who he calls, never realizing or stopping to consider that maybe there is a difference in the skill level. Hard to show your superiority if you never get a chance.

Your point is well taken though Perry. There are a lot of us here who are superb fitters and mechanics but we absolutely stink in the salesmanship department.

Then of course there are always the customers that refuse to believe your $80 work is any different than the guy their neighbor knows who works for $30.

Mitch_4

I know I know!!

The switch next to the thermostat has a poor wiring connection that is generating excessive heat and THAT is what is de calibrating the stat!!!

what? No?!?!

well fill me in because it CAN'T be the baseboard right under the stat, how else is it supposed to sense the heat from the boiler?

(That last statement was from a customer (now) of mine with a similar problem, and that is wat the previous "Pro" told him...)

Gene_3

that's funny

had an interesting conversation with a student today

he has some hvac exp from the military and works part time with his dad who has his own business

first I was asking about his broken foot

he broke it taking out cast iron radiators, he said , "man, those are heavy, they're renovating this house and we're putting in all new and changing out the a/c too, they had a 2ton split that didn't work so well, so we're putting in a 5ton "

see where I'm going with this?

I said "yeah, why were you taking them out, do you realize if you put baseboard along every wall in the house you will never even equal half of what they put out?"

he said , "huh?"

I said did you do a heat load calculation??

he said "huh?"

Home Depot Employee

Low bidder, what did you say?

Perry and others,
You ask why the others marketing skills win over all else??

It all comes down to the lowest price

Lets all sing along, to my favorite tune

Low bidder, what did you say?
(sung to the popular song by the KINKS- Low Budget)

Shark

geeze ..

Now they have to relocate that section of baseboard !!

Jed_2

Sounds like

The sharks are circling your tranquil, dolphin paradise. You can't cover it all. That jpeg illustrates the frenzy you are apparently engulfed in. Why is it that you were the only one to measure the radiation? Why ask us, it's you're market area. Who's out there where you work? Who's coming in as newbies? Who are you teaching, and what are they taking away? Who are you're major competitors in your middle to high end market? What self-respecting contractor would set up a control arrangement like that? Hey! Maybe it's a "Plant" in the field to ensure that YOU get the call back.

I understand that your post is a major frustration relief valve. But, "whassup wid da competition"; how the heck do we know? Competition is different in different areas of the country. You are a high profile personality, albeit, by your own choice. Nothing wrong with that. Highly proficient, knowledgeable, inovative, intuitive, and pragmatic. But, juxtaposing incompetence with your brilliance, and adding a healthy dose of frustraton to boot, in your post, you prove your human fragility. Hurray for Mark Eatherton. You are a giant in the hydronics industry! Dont' let the **** get you down.

Jed

[Deleted User]

Its a joke Jed....

You're taking me WAY to seriously.

ME

bill nye_3

can't ya

cant ' ya just cover that part of the baseboard wit tin foil?

Weezbo

ook ok *~/:)

(O)time out ..

evidently you don't see the control strategy as long as the T stat SAYS its 70 psychologically the owner feels assured its "all in his head"

or it may be part of the financial comfort deal where the Fuel Oil Company Loves the guy who owns that home

i dunno Mark you find some rare gems in your travels


last year i get the phone call the radiant isnt working ...dashed over to the house...an electric heater is standing there directly beneath the T stat ... Well,,Hmmmmm,....:)) what do i know ....maybe its supposed to be some kind of test to see if we can figure what is going on sight unseen...

ttekushan_3

sophisticated solution called for

Move neither the baseboard nor the thermostat.

Wayco Wayne_2

It's true

There are Knucklehead sightings everywhere. I hope it is only growing pains we'll see as hydronics gets more and more popular. This pic reminds me of a restaurant that complained the new A/C was too cold. We found they had installed the coffee pot right under the thermostat. D'oh! WW

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Jeff Lawrence_25

In an office

a copy machine was put nearly right under the tstat.

Go figure....

ScottMP

I agree Steve

theres alot more going on than just " better marketing ". Being in business for yourselve is alot more than the reading the books about how to run a business.

Many times you don't even here about a job before its been screwed up. Other people just want to belive that less it the same. How many times can you say to someone " if sounds to good to be true .... ".

Scott

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mtfallsmikey

I can top that, Jeff

Thermostats covered up by modular furniture panels, one of which was smashed...a large number of desktop servers causing excessive heat loading...And for WW, hydronics WERE the rage back in the 60's to late 70's in my area, before the heat pump age...but cheep is ALWAYS better, don't ya know?

Jim Bennett

I had ....

an overheating problem on one floor of a large commercial building. Most tenants on the floor getting BAKED.

First, check the thermostat, found it in a storage room that did not have a radiator! It was set at 68 deg. It WAS 68 in there.

Thermostats can be a mystery to some.

Jim

Jeff Lawrence_25

Pneumatics?

When I ran a large office building, there were the large areas where we couldn't place the thermostats. Traditionally, we would place them in the ceiling return grills so they would sense the R/A temps, but we couldn't do that in one tenants space.

It seems that the husband of the office manager was 'in heating and air' and told her that wasn't the correct way to do it. Finally, one of the other engineers came up with the idea to actually mount the pneumatic tstat directly on the ceiling tile and she went along with it. We'd have to watch carefully, as this company would physically move the cubicles and the tstat would end up above the center of a cube and nearly impossible to reach.

At least mounting the tstats on/in the ceiling kept the tenants from messing with them.

Mitch_4

I had a guy like that once too..

all I did was put 2 feet of stat wire in the wall and a dummy stat in his office...

the real one stayed inthe R/A..

worked like a charm

mtfallsmikey

Now, it's getting interesting!

A lot of thermostats in both of my buildings wound up above the RAG's, mainly because the interior of all of the floors were unfinished, and the tenant finished them. We control all space temps by our EMS (Tracer Summit)except for "certain" people..

Jed_2

Oooops!

My bad. But, from the posts to date on you're thread, there's more than a few real "jokes" out there (I've seen a couple). Unless all the posters are jokesters, too. You've hit on a great joke, Mark. Why shouldn't I take you seriously? Are you a jokester on the Wall? I don't believe that, but, what am I to think? So, I shouldn't take you seriously? Are you serious?

Jed

Jeff Lawrence_25

Did that too

Even ran a air line to one and put a restrictor in the ceiling so it would hiss like an active one.

Those were the days......

bigwilly104

Personal favorate

Lady in her office who bakes the rest of the offices on a reheat zone.

Lady; The thermostat is way off it can't be seventy five in here.
Me ; Looking at the digital thermometer I set on top of the stat that reads 75 deg in one inch letters. holding a multimeter with a thermocuple. Meter reads 75 Deg." I think is accurate maam"
Lady; well it cant be it just dosent feel like 75 in here. cant you just fix it.
Me ; let me talk to the building manager.
As I walk down the hall from the office shaking my head. left it up to the manager. Im sure I will be back again.

Paul Fredricks_3

Oh yeah

Got to love those.

I walked into an office area once. Said to the girl "I understand it's cold in here". She says "yes", but the girl right next to her, looks at her and says "No, it's hot in here".

I just stood there looking back and forth at both of them, then turned around and went to find the head of maintenance.

Jeff Lawrence_25

Commercial Buildings

Gotta love them.....

That basic comment was given to me by the Chief Engineer at the first high-rise I worked at. It was a warning about certain ladies going through menopause.

Y'all notice how this part of the thread has gotten away from Mark's original topic, although it's stayed on thermostats?

Paul Fredricks_3

Here's a quote that my first boss had, and still has, on his wall. I think it sums it all up.

"As a rule, mans a fool.
When it's hot, he wants it cool.
When it's cool, he wants it hot.
Always wanting what it's not."

John_102

Who you callin' a fool?

That saying should be stamped on every piece of sheet metal, cast into every hunk of iron, stenciled on each thermostat, vent, fan blade, etc. etc. of every boiler, heatpump, air conditioner, box fan, window, door (have I left anything out?)

Believe I'll go hang it up down it the basement today.

[Deleted User]

Jed...

I have an ironic sense of humor. I was voted most likely to make someone laugh in my high school.

I can be serious, if need be, but would rather be a jokester.

Life is too short to take it so seriously. THat's my mantra, and I'm sticking to it :-)

ME

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_1

All that's missing........

is a table under the stat with a tall light that's got a 100-watt bulb to give off 341.4-BTUs & sent a nice thermal message to the stat(G).

Clip the fins & add some armaflex!

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Mike Reavis_2

Which way do I send the shiny side?

My favorite is the stuff used in commercial kitchens.

Towels work OK on radiators too--or fill them with air.

Mitch_4

Kinda like one of

my "mottos" in life.

I laugh at the world, because if I look too close I'd probably cry"

Unknown

Framing's good...

Focus is alright, light too. Looks fine to me!;)

Gene_3

I used to love banks

full of women going into menopause

tstat up, tstat down, girl at the drive thru always too hot or cold

got some unwarranted attention when I returned with my LASER SIGHTED TEMP GUN

I noticed a couple of tellers with their jaws dropping

IT'S NOT A GUN I yelled

luckily they were so frozen they had not hit the silent alarm

they didn't complaign about the temp anymore..hehe

BILL GARNETT

temp sensing

me-mr gibbs has probably told u about our sensor location outside our office-right above the nite lite, made him pucker his panties when he walked into a rather cool office-he trouble shot it in quick order, made some menu adjustments on the tekmar 260 to compensate for his jake the plumber like decision-big bill

Jed_2

Mantra

Now I understand, Mark, especially in light of all the stories I'm reading in this post. Making people laugh is the best antidote for impending insanity. I'm frequently so wound up at the end of the day, when I sit back with a cold one and start reading the posts, I haven't yet landed. Perspective and frame of mind of the posts are difficult to interpret sometimes. You're right, the pic is a joke, and a "cool" one at that.

Jed