steam radiators -they don't make them like they used to

Dennis

then tear them down.

It's a nice thought to keep every old clunker building in place forever, but reality must enter into the picture at some point. These buildings are mechanical nightmares, energy hogs, enviromental hazzards, fire traps, handicap inaccessable problems.

Public buildings (government) need to serve the public interest, and use the taxpayers dollars in the most frugal manner.

Philadelphia is full of these junkers, only we don't use most of them as government buildings except for city hall, which has been a hole in the ground since it's original construction, to pour money down. Old buildings need to be put in private hands, or into non-profits who can raise the funds to care for them properly.

Btw, if you are looking for old radiators these are common in Philadelphia, I find them walled up in a lot of commercial buildings. I have quite a few rads much older than any I have seen on this site, any buyers?

Dan_29

steam radiators-they don't make them like they used to

I was playing tourist recently in Gloucester,Ma. I entered City Hall and saw some interesting looking two pipe steam radiators (see attached). They appear to be quite ornate, yet need some attention --no valve handles, rust and old air vents. Gloucester City Hall was built in 1870 (Architects-Bryant and Rogers) which means that these radiators are 137 years old. Don't these things ever rust out? How long does modern baseboard last by comparison?

I read in a recent Boston Globe article that the main clock tower of city hall is leaning almost two feet in one direction and 16 inches in another directon. Timbers have been installed in the clock tower to shore it up. It may cost 2 million dollars to repair it(see attached picture). Some of the citizens suggested tearing down the building and erecting a new one. Anyone need any radiators? Seriously, it would be a crime to tear down this building but Gloucester is not in good financial condition to afford such a renovation. While tourism is up the basic fishing industry is down. There must be a solution out there somewhere.

Dan

Steamhead (in transit)

Don't have my copy of E.D.R. at hand

but those might have been made by the H.B. Smith Co. I think they were called "X-ray"?

If the pH of the condensate is relatively neutral and the system doesn't take on a lot of fresh water, those rads should last forever.

I wonder if the tear-down advocates are building contractors who would stand to gain from such a travesty?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

ttekushan_3

profiteering

Frank, you asked, "I wonder if the tear-down advocates are building contractors who would stand to gain from such a travesty?" I'll give you three guesses, first two don't count.

Another tactic that is ALWAYS used in government work is what I call the "Stupid Outrageous Inflated Rehab Expenditure Estimate" (SOIREE) conjured up in friendly closed door meetings to ensure that profiteering spreads across both demolition and construction sectors.

This is how steam heating systems (on the micro level) and architectural assests (on the macro level) get destroyed. And we all pay for it.

In Cleveland, our illustrious cuyahoga county commissioners have elected (2-1) to destroy one of the world's few office towers designed by Marcel Breuer. On the order of $235 Million (before cost over runs) for this project, and rehab somehow was only estimated to save 30 million over demolition and rebuilding. Heck, they only paid $27M or so for the entire complex which includes the historic Cleveland Trust Rotunda, which sports a gargantuan tiffany domed skylight! And they couldn't work with this complex without spending an extra quarter billion bucks.

The two county commissioners in question always vote on things just this way. Funny thing, that.

Terry

[the rotunda building is not threated, unless the Breuer Tower falls on in during demolition]

Tekkie

New or renovate

I work for a school district and my vote is to put new up. Like Dennis explained it's a losing battle. I have gone through two new, one renovation, one renovation in progress, multiple add ons, etc. My opinion is you can't make chicken soup out of chicken poop. In the public sector the goodies go behind the scenes to people while the infrastructure pays the price - everyone wants to cut the cost of the construction but the upgrades that should be done are spent on new solid cherry desks for the upper echelon. End of rant

Steamhead (in transit)

That's called \"Corruption\"

throw the bums out!

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Tekkie

Corruption

Well the school board is elected... But there are three kinds of people that run. First are ones trying to further a future political office. Ones that have an agenda - either save every dollar or keep the teachers happy giv'm whatever they want - they are our most precious asset - so on. Third want the best possible education for the kids - the minority. I am a firm believer in GRIP - GET RID of INCUMBENT POLITICIANS. The school board hires the superintendent which is just a glorified teacher - like a gym teacher - who knows and uses the system. What a petulant bunch. Superintendent wants video conferencing - spend unbudgeted $$$ - busses need brakes - hummmm better only buy one set. My last comments before I pop a vessel and lose my job...

ttekushan_3

hope

I'll leave this one here as well. Being born and raised in a community where public sector corruption is a given, my views become a bit cynical. The city shall remain nameless except its in northeastern Ohio, on lake Erie, and its name starts with "C."

Scratch the surface of a cynic and you'll find an idealist, some observant person once said.

Our school board's been mayor-appointed for some years now since things were so horrible, i.e. worse that even city operations. That didn't help immediately, but the latest superintendent (under a new mayor) has really been kicking some butt. I really like the system wide strict dress codes and the new single-sex "experimental" schools. Just the tip of the iceberg, I hear.

Oy. When I used to hear some myopic and corrupt school board member repeatedly say (in a forked tongue manipulative manner) "we are doing for the children. It's the children that matter" I'd hurl something at the TV. Lost a perfectly good television during an evening news program that way.

A grim realization in this town (and region) seems to have set in, one that's actually very healthy. Some of us around here may finally begin shedding some of that cynicism.

-Terry

Dan_29

tear downs

Perhaps some old buildings need to be torn down rather than "rehabbed". This solution may not be the panacea you think it is. An example is the new high school in my City of Newton,Ma. The first Newton (North) High School was built in 1896 for about one million dollars. It lasted until 1973 when a "modern" structure was erected for around 35 million dollars. It is the typical 1970's "Brutalist" style of ugly red brick and thermo windows and no visual details. It has a poor floor plan, an inadequate hvac system, falling asbestos ceilings and insufficient parking. The newest planned high school will be visually attractive and well constructed hopefully. However, it will cost 154 million dollars (the most expensive high school ever built in Massachusetts). It may put a significant strain on municipal finances.

I wonder if it may have been better to rehab and add on to the original school and perhaps save millions over the decades?

Dan

john_27

dennis...I'm in Philly...also looking for old radiators with broomell or veco fittings...got any...email me at:arbt@bloomberg.net

Tekkie

Dan, and others sorry for the delay - busy! I understand your position and agree with it for the most part. However I can only judge from what I have to work with and the experiences involved. Can't make chicken soup from chicken poop. It is sorta like the rest of Americas infrastructure build new, minimal or no maintenance, crisis, discussion, rebuild or renew about 3-5 years late. Another comparison is like entering a customers house and looking at their system. Some are maintained great, some ok, some never, some hacked in. One has to make a decision to repair or replace. In the public sector these decisions are made by committee!
If you really want to find out how this works attend a public meeting of your local municipality. Ask a few questions like how did you arrive at this decision? What are the advantages/disadvantages/raise my taxes? It is truly worth the price of admission. A whole new perspective on people that even the service/retail end doesn't see. Besides it's good to just check things out. It's a citizens responsibility (a least in my opinion). That's all I'm gonna say because I ain't raising my blood pressure - this discussion could go on forever - I respect EVERY opinion; may not agree with it, but I respect it. Take care all.