Copper Gas Pipe

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quite often copper LP lines are not arond here. I've seen both soft and hard drawn copper used in the LP installations.

I'd actually feel more secure with hard drawn copper then I would with the the extremely thin CSST gas lines :)

I know the Viega gas press fittings have a yellow marking to help identify the use.

hot rod

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Stirling Boston

Copper Gas Pipe

I saw this the other day and it left me scratching my head. What do you guys think?

SB

Al Letellier_9

copper gas pipe

Acceptable if out in the open under most codes. IF the fittings are approved, why not? Sure beats black iron as far as installation time is concerned. As long as it is in a "no hazard" area, I would consider it.

Rich Kontny_4

It's Legit

Propress has a natural gas system that is approved in most areas. One has to check out the cost-effectiveness of this system with copper prices being so high!

Many commercial and institutional jobs specify these systems.

Copper has been used for 2# natural gas systems for close to 20 years.

Rich K.

Al Letellier_9

copper gas pipe

If acceptable by code, why not? But I hope this is in a low hazard area. I think I would use a more rigid method of hanging the pipe. Sorry for the double post. First one did not show up on my screen

Stirling Boston

Thanks for the info to all... I figured it must be legit, just something that I haven't seen before.

It's great to know that we all have a place to go ask questions when we either don't know or need a second opinion on something that is out of the norm.

SB

Chris_82

I don't agree,...

Fire first of all and then subsequent work near the copper, copper has nowhere near the strength iron does. And the fact that rubber gaskets, and I don't care what the material is, it oxidises and wears just like any plastic will over time. Just because a manufacturer pushes their particular product dosen't mean it's safe! Take csst as an example, speedy installation but what cost to the customer? Just because you can dosen't mean you should. If I even mentioned spec. ing copper for any job It would be riducled and laughed at. considing the saftey issues!

rich pickering

Does that mean we should get rid of all the gas valves with their gaskets? what about commercial quick-connects?
Gas regs? Seems to me there are o-rings in a lot of components.

jackchips_2

Sometimes

it is difficult for us to accept that the code is not the same as our personal preferrence, Chris.

The code answers are appropriate and address the original question but that doesn't take away from your own concerns.

Jack

bob_50

Ask

NASA about o-rings

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

I'm with Chris and the other Bob

I won't put flexible gas piping in the walls, when I first started we couldn't even use flex connectors behond the stoves. Thanks, Bob Gagnon

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Unknown

correct me if I'm wrong....

I thought its was not allowed to use copper on natural gas. Due to chemical reaction with natural gas and copper, inside will flakes and plug up the pilot and non 100% closing of gas valve. Alum tubing was switched from copper for that reason...

Stirling Boston

Copper Gas Pipe

That was my original thought when I saw this and then the ProPress really made me questions if this was legit. I remember seeing a letter from our local plumbing inspector some 10-years ago that said copper was illegal for gas pipe in our city on any projects moving forward.

Just for clarification, the city I took this picture in was Murfreesboro, TN and the letter I saw 10-years ago was in Dallas, TX.

mtfallsmikey

Well...

First I've seen or heard of this...I'm a little rusty on Gas codes, but when we were starting to do 2 psi piping
with copper / Swagelok fittings, we had to paint the pipe yellow. Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but I'll still do black pipe, and flex connectors. Makes for a good night's rest!

hr

Consult with your local AHJ

I know it has been accepted in the NFPA National Fuel Gas Code book for many years. The NFPA code does get referenced in many plumbing and mechanical codes.

From my 1999 edition
2.6.3
"copper and brass tubing shall not be used if the gas contains more than an average 0.3g of hydrogen sulfide per 100scf of gas. Copper tubing shall comply with standard type K or L"

Any of us have a meter to test that??

It really depends on the codebook used in your area AND the opinion of the AHJ. The AHJ has the ability to add exceptions to the code they use, regardless of what is printed in the book.

Some juristdictions, like mine, chose to use older codebook versions. In one city I work in they also have 3 pages of exceptions to the plumbing and mechinical I codebook. For many years they banned the use of flexible gas connectors. Due to installer abuse they claimed???


I have heard some rumors regarding NG that is imported and the quality and spec of such?

Didn't Viessmann replace all the copper lines inside the Vitoden with a stainless steel retro-fit kit? I remember a rumor about pin holes in coper gas piping in some western states.

hot rod

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ALH_4

Copper

I know Viessmann did replace all of their copper gas lines inside the Vitodens with stainless steel in 2005. They supplied a bit of supporting documentation at that time. The copper could react with the H2S and black flakes would clog the screen in the gas valve.

Even though it is a bit more work and it has its own problems, I'm a fan of black iron gas pipe.

Rich Kontny_4

Hospitals

Hospital specs for materials are some of the most stringent in our industry and they use pro-press for natural gas. When my brother (who is a mechanical contractor in Florida)visited England recently he saw that they used it for medical gases also.

I tend to be a hesitant progressive when it comes to new products and systems. When something is specified you know your competition is going to use the most cost-effective materials and processes.

Otherwise we would still be using bell and spigot cast iron DWV systems and galvanized pipe. The reluctance(s) I see here are just more examples of resistance to change.

All of us have to stand by our installs and tend to stay with systems we are comfortable with.

Rich K.

EJW_3

PRO PRESS

I wonder what would be considered a "leak" in this system?

Bob Harper_2

codes

I can't believe this discussion still goes on.

If you have more than 0.3 grains of hydrogen sulphide per 100 cu.ft., you cannot use copper-period! If you are finding copper sulphide "black dust/ flakes", you need to replace all valves and regulators and replace all the copper with black iron or CSST.


IF you are curious about the application of pressed fittings, why not download the manual and read it? If these fittings are listed for gas, the listing will spell out under what conditions, pressures, etc. If you are doing your due diligence in commissioning pressure testing, that will uncover fugitive gas leaks. If you inspect it for proper support and protection from hazards, there shouldn't be any leak hazards to worry about any more than any other means of piping.

HTH,
Bob

Rich Kontny_4

Well

> I can't believe this discussion still goes on.

> If you have more than 0.3 grains of hydrogen

> sulphide per 100 cu.ft., you cannot use

> copper-period! If you are finding copper sulphide

> "black dust/ flakes", you need to replace all

> valves and regulators and replace all the copper

> with black iron or CSST.

>

> IF you are curious

> about the application of pressed fittings, why

> not download the manual and read it? If these

> fittings are listed for gas, the listing will

> spell out under what conditions, pressures, etc.

> If you are doing your due diligence in

> commissioning pressure testing, that will uncover

> fugitive gas leaks. If you inspect it for proper

> support and protection from hazards, there

> shouldn't be any leak hazards to worry about any

> more than any other means of piping.

> HTH, Bob



Well said applications relative to coditions!

Rich Kontny_4

Well

Well said applications relative to conditions!