modulating oil burners

Mike T., Swampeast MO

So 18-wheelers will be required to use the "clean" oil while domestic boilers receive even dirtier?

Am I correct in believing that it's currently impossible to fully atomize a small quantity of oil--not to mention attempting to vary the quantity of oil for modulation? Current attempt something around the lines of the Lennox Pulse furnace that was both exceptionally efficient and hideously trouble-prone?

carol_3

modulating oil burners

I'm wondering if residential modulating oil burners are used in the US. I'm writing about modulating gas valves, and I don't want to leave out oil if there's something to say. My impression is that modulating oil burners are available in commercial but not residential in the US. How about residential in Europe?

J.C.A._3

Carol,

There are a few companies making them in Europe for the residential market. Herrmann is one manufacturer. Alan Mercurio had one as a tester and they did some preliminary work with it....but the firing rates were too low for the U.S. market at the time.(no boilers to fit the burners!)

I've also seen a Japanese version, but the name escapes me right now. The guys at Brookhaven were playing with them a few years back. As I recall, the firing rates are REAL LOW, and our fuel quality leaves alot to be desired when going this small.(>.21-.55 gph IIRC)

The fuel units were the "brains" of both of the ones I saw, and the Herrmann was attached to the motor that most of the gas burners use, with the pulse feedback driving a "pulse type fuel unit".

Hope this helped. If not, you can try the guys at the lab in Brookhaven. Chris

P.S. I forgot about the Riello that is now available in a "2 stage" format for some Thermopride furnasties. If they would try it in a steam boiler or 2...I bet they'd have a winner! JCA

Mike T., Swampeast MO

If I've done my math properly 0.21 - .055 gph of fuel oil equates with about 28-70 mbh and I have a bit of a hard time believing that such is "REAL LOW" for residential use when the control system and emitters are designed with proportional control in mind.

J.C.A._3

Mike T...

See...OIL.

Get back to me if you find things that small, ...that are approved appliances.

I haven't seen an oil boiler listed with a smaller than .65 gph rating...that stays working more than a few days....in the 24 years that I've been in the field.

Our oil fuel SUCKS!,and the only way it will EVER work with these appliances is to get the sulfer out of it....but that entails raising the price..and there ain't anyone willing to go with that!

I was, and will always be an "oil guy"...I started learning the gas field to be able to keep making a living. The oil industry is it's own worst enemy....and I don't want to be a part of THAT anymore.

When the fuel can support a real LOW firing rate , without being a liability.....I'm in ! Until then...I'm Skeptical...and kinda P.O.'d to boot! Life's short...Play hard!.. Chris

Unknown

And show me an oil burner

that won't need constant upkeep firing at .25 GPH with the current oil quality .

I've been firing my own at .50 for over a year . 2 cartridge style filters and a Garber equivalent . 2 year old Roth tank . I've changed the filters and nozzle at least 4 times this season .

I'd love to see modulating burners on the market , but I think we'd have way too many service calls if they burned on low fire for extended periods of time .

If it's more common to see mod-burners in europe , how is their oil quality compared to us ?

J.C.A._3

OHHHH!

Thanks Ron! I knew I wasn't alone. Chris

heatboy

I agree.

The technolgy of burning fuels is getting more sophisticated while the quality of fuel burned (#2, natural and propane gases) is getting worse. I'll pass on the oil condensing/modulating burner equipment. I have enough headaches already.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

mtfallsmikey

Has any of this experimentation been done with

Kerosene?...Seems that would be the way to go.

Steamhead (in transit)

I think the Babington burner can do it

they have some of these units at Brookhaven Labs, check them out if you go there.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Alan R. Mercurio_3

Carol, I got your e-mail and I’m working on pulling together some information for you.

Your friend in the industry,
Alan R. Mercurio

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

heatboy

In your opinion, Chris..........

...... has the quality of fuel gotten better or worse since the days of ye ole Yukon condensing furnaces?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

J.C.A._3

HB,

When I started, you could SMELL the difference between fuel oil and Kerosene. The colors were a bit different, even without dye in them, and the range oil was as fine as you could get.

We ran quite a few Timkins right up till the "cracked fuel" started to become the fuel du jour. That was the beginning of the problem, cracking vs. the old either settling or distilling of the crude.

It worked GREAT for the suppliers, they could get almost 40% more "middle distillate" from a same amount of crude ! It has been a nightmare for us every once in a while!!!

I remember about 10 years ago, having to go around and pump OUT tanks that were filled earlier that day, because the smell was so bad...it ruined the family cookout, even just what was venting from the vent pipe!

I've seen the onset of biological growth like there isn't anything you can do to stop it and the new fuel seems to mix with water...at a certain level.(let some sit for a while in a clear jug...I've seen the separation in some short and some long periods of time)

Ed Kitchen made a presentation at Carlin U a couple few years back, and I've heard nothing but decent reviews for their Ultraguard product line.

While working for the old company, we tried a few different mixers...and I believe they settled with a product made by Dearborn/Betz that seemed to do O.K.

The fuel has gotten worse...but I see that the new diesel at the pumps is ULSD. Less than 15 PPM for the new generation diesel autos. Maybe the suppliers will work on the fuel oil supply and get them all moving in that direction.You'll still have to have some kind of additive package, without a doubt to keep the life forms from spontaneously sprouting in it, but I think it will get better.(At least I hope!) Chris

Tilmon

I live in Canada and there are no central heating appliances equipped with modulating oil burners. In oil stoves on the other hand we are seeing a lot of modulating units. All of them use a "burner mat" of some kind, they have better efficiency than most flame retention burners. The firing rates are controlled by an electronic system and can modulate a lot (.05 - .2gph is the best I've seen).
Most of these use #1 or kerosene, (Toyo, Monitor). At least one does use #2 (Furnace oil), it's called the Oil Miser.
If you want more info on this simply ask me here.

Glen

maybe not

Last year the Canadian feds introduced ultra low sulpher as the norm for both your diesel rig and fuel oil. The difference is already been noticed with increased pump failures (lack of lubricity?). Just recently I asked all suppliers in my area - all replies were the same. Same fuel stock base as the highway variety, and in BC the additional requirement that all fuel oils are now marked or dyed.

[Deleted User]

Another example

of that pesky law of unintended consequences. Or maybe. Breathe cleaner air. Freeze instead.

J.C.A._3

as I said....

Additive packages will be the norm...and ARE available.

I'm sure some companies have already seen this and are addressing the issue as we speak!. Chris

mtfallsmikey

New low-sulfur diesel

According to one of my gearhead friends, who is an experienced diesel tech, says the new low-sulfur fuel is wreaking havoc with older engines, both auto and farm equipment.