A Little steam help pls

Al Letellier_9

hard to say for sure from your sketch, but most likely it is being used as a vent/vacuum breaker. When the system is in start up mode, it will let air out into the return. It will close when steam gets there, and then open when things cool off, effectively acting like a vacuum breaker. I've seen this a lot in some 2 pipe systems here. Think like steam and check the direction of flow in the trap, that would be your first hint as to what and why.

Jeff Elston

Is this right or can it work?

My attention is on the rad with the 1A in it.
The return is trapped at the rad and then a tee and another trap into the steam side.

I would think the 1A is for the water filled dry return but I am puzzled on why that trap back to the steam side is there.

I am sorry for the crude drawing and the left out parts but I do have color!

Thank you for your time.

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Steamhead (in transit)

The 1A shouldn't be there

In this setup, air from the rad should vent thru the trap, into the dry return and out the vent on the condensate receiver. The zone valve could cause vacuum to form if it closes with all traps closed downstream. A vacuum breaker is the cure for this.

The crossover trap installed between the steam and return lines acts as a steam main vent. Its job is to pass air from the main into the dry return, where it is vented to the receiver as described above.

Remove the rad vent and plug the hole. If that rad is now slow to heat, check the crossover trap to see that it's working and large enough to vent the main quickly.

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Jeff Elston

More

Thank you SH and Al,

I was thinking it is a vent for the main, but it is installed going the other way! heres a pic

The 3/4 riser on the right goes to the rad inlet and the 3/4 riser on the left is from the rad trap, just as the the rad joins the dry return there is the cross over.

I mean the whole thing is wacky, the tee on the supply is lower in height than the tee on the return. After looking at the pic further I guess I assumed that the trap direction of flow is to the right into the supply am I wrong?

What a mess by the way
thanks again
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Steamhead (in transit)

Actually

the trap is completely wrong. That trap was made for a vertical line with the steam coming into the top (right side in this pic). It's probably waterlogged. You need a horizontal type of trap.

The direction of flow going thru the trap is correct, but the orientation is wrong.

And the trap line must pitch down from the steam line connection to the dry return.

Oh, and copper is wrong for pipes that carry steam. But you know that already....

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Jeff Elston

Thk you SH

We are revisiting this one from before. I posted about a while ago.

http://forums.invision.net/Index.cfm?CFApp=2&Message_ID=233975

I finally landed the boiler replacement and now am working on the piping proposal.

Steamhead I have no confindence in that dry return. It goes through a tunnel just after the cluster and I am sure it holds water not allowing the system to vent.


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Steamhead (in transit)

Try blowing thru it

you'll know for sure.

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Jeff Elston

blow hard

I can't wait to gack that copper right out of the nasty crawl

I will be piping the boiler being my first steamer

and when it turns up to be wet, I can't get in the tunnel to re pitch ?

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Steamhead (in transit)

If you can't get air thru the return

in the tunnel, put a large vent in that area, like a Gorton #2. That will let that section of the return vent air.

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Jeff Elston

Vent

Like on the supply or the dry return.

I am thinking on the return right above the crossover connection?


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Steamhead (in transit)

You got it

let us know how you make out.

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