Diesel fuel for oil burner?...............(Starch)

John Starcher_4

....called today and asked if diesel fuel is ok to burn in her fuel oil furnace. She lives on an island, and the ferry company is not going to allow fuel oil deliveries anymore. Some kind of liability issue, I guess. Gasoline and diesel fuel will still be delivered to the island for their lone gas station.

Supposedly one of her neighbors has been burning diesel for at least a year, and he "says" that it works fine.

Any thoughts?

Starch

Mitch_4

diesel and #2

are the same thing, coloured and taxed differently.

I do not get why they will deliver diesel and not heating oil.

Mitch

Eric Johnson

road tax

Be sure to tell her to file for an exemption to the road tax, if that's not already figured into the price.

I thought that these days Diesel was all Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, which has 15ppm of sulfur, vs. 500 or more for fuel oil. Will LSD work in an oil burner with sulfur content that low?

J.C.A._3

It will work....BUT,

Have her ask about lubricity improving additives.



Rumor control has it that the ultra LSD is eating pumps at an alarming rate. There was a post last week on Modulating oil burners, and the references to pump failures was included.

I would be asking about an additive package to have on hand...and give it to the fuel company to add as they fill the tank.

I'm sure there are a lot more additive packages available now than there were just a few years ago. If there is REALLY doubt about them contact the respective makers and explain the situation. I bet they'll have some kind of answer.

Let us know how you make out. Inquiring minds want to know!

(I too would like to hear the explanation from the ferry company...hell, they're probably carrying 15 or 20,000 gallons with them on the trip to the island.... on their person) Chris.

John Starcher_4

Thanks, guys....

...I don't understand the ferry company's logic, either. Diesel fuel....good.....#2 heating oil....bad?????????? It is what it is, though. I'm sure there's a "rest of the story" somewhere.

Anywho - I'll pass this information along, and report back.

Starch

Bruce Stevens

If they truck tankers over then

I don't see the problem but if they tank it over and pump it off it may be a cross contamination problem

John Starcher_4

As far as I know...

...it's all tank trucks.

Unknown

Starch,

They(and rightly so), want to avoid this kind of crap. We all need heat, but waterways and oil don`t mix(someone in a lab came-up with that),, I would assume the liability insurance is rough.

Dave

Unknown

Starch,

They likely want to avoid this kind of crap. We all need heat, but the liability insurance for delivery(for that use of fuel), must be crazy!

Dave

chapchap70_2

The specs for fuel oil allow the sulfur content to be as low as 500 ppm. As far as I know, the only significant difference beside sulfur content between #2 fuel oil and diesel is that the diesel may have a higher viscosity. Many times, the diesel viscosity is within #2 oil specs in which case the diesel can be re-branded as #2 fuel.

If the people could find diesel with the 500 ppm sulfur, get it; otherwise, have the person get a lubricity additive to compensate for the ultra low (under 15 ppm) sulfur diesel. I believe that diesel with higher than 500 ppm sulfur is now illegal nationwide.

J.C.A._3

Chapchap....

You got it brother! The new diesel engines approved by the EPA are/HAVE TO run on 15 PPM or less fuel.

It's kind of ironic...because in some states, you can't even buy diesel vehicles...even with the new fuel standards.(Yet in most of Europe..every vehicle that is available as a gasoline powered version here...is made as diesel/gasoil over there...and without the tags on the cars themselves...ya really can't tell the difference, noise wise !) Chris

Big Ed_3

White Lie

What occupation is the home owner in ??? Construction ? Farming ? Trucking ? No reason for fuel oil- ferry exemption ... They just wanted to know if there is any problem with burning their free diesel but did not want to confess to their oil burner tech ....

John Starcher_4

Not a lie, Ed.....

...the ferry company's "embargo" is for real. The homeowner has nothing to say about it.

chapchap70_2

This ferry thing seems weird but there is a possibility that the ferry would allow the <500 ppm red dyed low sulfur diesel for off road vehicles and marine engines. I think this is what the people who heat with oil on that island should look into. Besides the lubricity issue, the low sulfur is between 15 and 20 cents cheaper per gallon than the ultra low sulfur around here.

Added (That excludes road taxes.)

[Deleted User]

EPA Regs

concerning interchangeability of heating oil & high sulfur diesel (for off road use) are anything but crystal clear. A screw up, or failure to provide proper signage, can result in a $32,500. per day fine.

That, plus the ban on heating oil being re-designated as high sulfur diesel after 10/1/07, is going to create even more disruption in the supply system. After that date, from North Carolina to Maine, heating oil can only be used for "furnaces and a limited number of stationary engines, such as generators." This is from PMAA Regulatory Update -August 6, 2007.

John Starcher_4

Update!

I spoke with my client today. Now, apparently the ferry company is ceasing all diesel fuel shipments, as well!!!!

Looks like it's time for a new lp furnace.

Starch

Paul Fredricks_3

How small is this island. Are there cars there? What about gasoline? Or do the people have to take their cars on the ferry to fill up?

What a pain!

Steamhead (in transit)

What reason

do they give for this? Why propane and not #2? Is the ferry company being controlled by the propane company?

Maybe it's time to get the lawyers involved.

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John Starcher_4

Answers.

Paul - the island is not huge, but it does have roads, and yes there are cars. There is a gas station there, too!

Frank - From what I understand, the ferry company is claiming that allowing fuel oil (and apparently diesel now)deliveries constitutes a "service," and they are not in the service business. Huh?

The ferry company is privately owned. I don't understand why lp and gasoline are ok, but not heating or diesel oil. I suspect there is much, much more to the story than what I will ever know. Seems like there has to be a behind the scenes reason for this decision. There are only a handful (maybe six?) of homeowners there that still heat with oil. Most new construction is lp or electric, and the majority of existing homes (that even HAVE heat) converted to one of those two fuels.

On the bright side, I got a furnace sale out of the deal!

Starch

Steamhead (in transit)

Follow the money

I bet it's the propane or electric company.

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Aidan (UK)

Diesel fuel

A diesel car/boat with additional fuel tanks? Transfer the excess to the oil tank on the island.

Would bio-diesel be affected? There are less stringent requirements on storing bio-diesel, it's bio-degradeable and doesn't have the environmental impact of fossil diesel if spilt. If they won't ferry diesel, I doubt that they'll ferry LPG for long.

Big Ed_3

Or.....

........ a lack of tipping fees .