Need Help...Cosmo

ScottMP

Your about to burn the wall ...

I think its not a bad thing to remember how to solder !!

Siggy got me thinking also, he's good like that.

Scott

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Cosmo_3

Circaholic in search of cure

I realize I should know better.

Yet a circaholic I am.

Siggy's presentation on electrical efficiency for hydronic systems at REX re-invigorated me.

I just noticed this as I was looking through job pics, here the homeowner picked up my camera off the jobsite table as I was working recently and took this candid shot of me installing too many circs, and using my torch no less...

Would the wholesalers out there please start stocking the new ECM motor based circs, and help us find a cure?

After all, a watt is a terrible thing to waste

Cosmo

Timco

Are you always that happy @ work? Maybe try whistling? Sweet piping layout! Looks really good.

Tim

Cosmo_3

What can I say, I had no idea she was about to take a pic...

Does look a little grumpy eh? Haha I bet I would have been smiling if I could get enough fittings in stock from supply houses to do boiler installs using my propress, instead of basically just using it on service calls, and small jobs

Thanks for the compliment, I guess I can post pics of the completed system when I finally finish

Cosmo

Unknown

Don't feel so bad , Cosmo

Today we installed 6 circs on one boiler . I'm afraid of circ withdrawl once we break the habit .

Very nice work . I'd love to see the finished product once it's all done .

Cosmo_3

I guess I do have to smile more!

Here is another one she took when I knew it was coming and still...no smile!

aye caramba

Cosmo

Cosmo_3

not a smiler that day

Here is another one that shows some more of the piping, I remember now, she came by at 6pm to see the progress and was surprised to see me there.

I knew this one was coming and still no smile, I guess I was tired

Cosmo

john_83

Nice pipe work and circs are the only way to go. Just finished a boiler with 14 circs looks beatiful. just a idea but it would look even better if you make your pex transitions up in the ceiling so you get more of the piping. but otherwise great neat work

kevin coppinger_4

the first step....

is admitting that you have a problem. Then you can work on reducing your consumption.....nice work. kpc

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Steverino

Grumpy?

No, no...you had your, "game face" on!
Nice looking job!

Ericjeeper

Solder splatter?

Is it rough on them bare legs?LOL
Excellent looking and well thought out wall layout.

Unknown

wearing short will

I wear short onmy jobs and yes,wearing them makes u a better soldering as u'll be using less solder. Less solder means less burns on ur legs, less mess etc... By the way, nice pipings job...

Cosmo_3

Yeah

You learn to be more careful when drips hurt

Cosmo

siggy_5

been there, done that

Glad you enjoyed the presentation on low wattage pumping.

I too have been a circaholic with past system designs, but after realizing what's possible I'm in a state of perpetual excitement about the future of hydronic circulation.

Our industry has a great opportunity at hand to continue delivering superior comfort using a fraction of the electrical energy consumed by our present systems.

Low power pumping also dovetails perfectly with the "green" marketing concepts that appear before the public daily through a wide range of media.

I'm confident the combination of ECM-based pressure regulated circulators and valve-based zoning (on/off, TRV, manifold actuators) will slowly but surely become the new standard for state-of-the-art system design. Like many concepts it will take time to be implemented by the masses, but the "early adapters" will definitely set a trend that others will follow. We've seen that happen with PEX, microbubble air separation, mod/con boilers, pumping away, and other concepts we now consider "mainstream." This technology will also further differentiate the advantages of hydronics versus forced air distribution.

Revisit these thoughts each time you design a new system.

siggy

heatboy

Seminar was certainly.......

.....eye opening and the best part (aside from the bars) of the week. Here is something to ponder. The whole idea of 2.5 watt circs is the coolest thing coming, but what do we do with the small condensing boilers that require ridiculously high head pumps just to get the water through the HX? Save here, waste there.

hb

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Guy Woollard

low pressure drop

There's always the small condensing boiler with the LOW pressure drop... (sorry, had to...it's my job)

hr

high head circs that consume

1/2 the power would be a good start. That is easily done with ECM circs. And also encourging the boiler manufacturers to port out the HXers.

Climate Panel installers could also enjoy low wattage high head circs

hot rod

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hr

This should be a Grundfos wake up call

as the contractors that can't break the "wall of pumps" habits will be prime candiates for a more expensive Alpha Pro circ.

Or another color circ altogether.

The cat is out of the bag, low power circs are coming to stay.

hot rod

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Cosmo_3

quite active

Nice to see all the posts

Unfortunately although I have things to add to the discussion, I just got back from working and I gotta get ready for a date.

yeah, that's more important than the wall. I'll wait until I am married before I hold a woman up because I am busy posting here.....

Talk to you guys tomorrow

Cosmo

hr

first things first!!



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heatboy

HX size is the key.....

..... component, more than anything else. The Prestige has, I believe, among the lowest pressure drop of the current crop of residential condensing equipment. Somewhere around 6' for the 110 at 8 GPM? I'm not sure it could/would/should be done, but taking a larger commercial boiler, like the Vertomat, and shrinking it to a residential size should be a much better choice. 80 GPM through a 650 MBH Vertomat has a head loss of about 1'.

I would hate to think that things like the Glowmore was the blueprint for this era. We all know how well that worked out.

ECM motors are great, but I think they will be a band-aid covering an achilles heel.

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Perry_3

Pristigue on a Monoflow T system

Best of the old with the new.... with only 1 circ.

Yeh, I know; no one wants to pay to build a Monoflow T system anymore. Cast Iron Baseboard is cool too.


Perry

siggy_5

low pressure drop distribution system

Try a low head loss Prestige boiler supplying a homerun distribution system. Parallel beats series and monoflow for low pressure drop, equal supply temperatures, and easy zoning.

siggy

Cosmo_3

system view as a whole

Great points being made here, I see that eventually the market may react similarly to the way we see just about every boiler co now makes a three pass configuration with a swing out door, and an energy star label.

It may take 5-10-maybe even 20 years but eventually we get what we are asking for....

Lets also not forget the blowers we are installing for combustion air on jobs that do not include a sealed combustion burner.

Those who have been counting on pumping away piping configurations with bigger than needed circs for hard to purge circuits will also have to finally invest in purge carts

We have come a long way in the past ten years, maybe we won't have to wait that long for most manufacturers to offer boilers that have low mass and low heat exchanger restriction to flow....



Cosmo