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Need Help...Cosmo

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ScottMP
ScottMP Member Posts: 5,884
in THE MAIN WALL
Your about to burn the wall ...

I think its not a bad thing to remember how to solder !!

Siggy got me thinking also, he's good like that.

Scott

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  • Cosmo_3
    Cosmo_3 Member Posts: 845
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    Circaholic in search of cure

    I realize I should know better.

    Yet a circaholic I am.

    Siggy's presentation on electrical efficiency for hydronic systems at REX re-invigorated me.

    I just noticed this as I was looking through job pics, here the homeowner picked up my camera off the jobsite table as I was working recently and took this candid shot of me installing too many circs, and using my torch no less...

    Would the wholesalers out there please start stocking the new ECM motor based circs, and help us find a cure?

    After all, a watt is a terrible thing to waste

    Cosmo
  • Timco
    Timco Member Posts: 3,040
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    Are you always that happy @ work? Maybe try whistling? Sweet piping layout! Looks really good.

    Tim
    Just a guy running some pipes.
  • Cosmo_3
    Cosmo_3 Member Posts: 845
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    What can I say, I had no idea she was about to take a pic...

    Does look a little grumpy eh? Haha I bet I would have been smiling if I could get enough fittings in stock from supply houses to do boiler installs using my propress, instead of basically just using it on service calls, and small jobs

    Thanks for the compliment, I guess I can post pics of the completed system when I finally finish

    Cosmo
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    Don't feel so bad , Cosmo

    Today we installed 6 circs on one boiler . I'm afraid of circ withdrawl once we break the habit .

    Very nice work . I'd love to see the finished product once it's all done .
  • Cosmo_3
    Cosmo_3 Member Posts: 845
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    I guess I do have to smile more!

    Here is another one she took when I knew it was coming and still...no smile!

    aye caramba

    Cosmo
  • Cosmo_3
    Cosmo_3 Member Posts: 845
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    not a smiler that day

    Here is another one that shows some more of the piping, I remember now, she came by at 6pm to see the progress and was surprised to see me there.

    I knew this one was coming and still no smile, I guess I was tired

    Cosmo
  • john_83
    john_83 Member Posts: 76
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    Nice pipe work and circs are the only way to go. Just finished a boiler with 14 circs looks beatiful. just a idea but it would look even better if you make your pex transitions up in the ceiling so you get more of the piping. but otherwise great neat work
  • kevin coppinger_4
    kevin coppinger_4 Member Posts: 2,124
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    the first step....

    is admitting that you have a problem. Then you can work on reducing your consumption.....nice work. kpc

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  • Steverino
    Steverino Member Posts: 140
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    Grumpy?

    No, no...you had your, "game face" on!
    Nice looking job!
  • Ericjeeper
    Ericjeeper Member Posts: 179
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    Solder splatter?

    Is it rough on them bare legs?LOL
    Excellent looking and well thought out wall layout.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    wearing short will

    I wear short onmy jobs and yes,wearing them makes u a better soldering as u'll be using less solder. Less solder means less burns on ur legs, less mess etc... By the way, nice pipings job...
  • Cosmo_3
    Cosmo_3 Member Posts: 845
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    Yeah

    You learn to be more careful when drips hurt

    Cosmo
  • siggy_5
    siggy_5 Member Posts: 4
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    been there, done that

    Glad you enjoyed the presentation on low wattage pumping.

    I too have been a circaholic with past system designs, but after realizing what's possible I'm in a state of perpetual excitement about the future of hydronic circulation.

    Our industry has a great opportunity at hand to continue delivering superior comfort using a fraction of the electrical energy consumed by our present systems.

    Low power pumping also dovetails perfectly with the "green" marketing concepts that appear before the public daily through a wide range of media.

    I'm confident the combination of ECM-based pressure regulated circulators and valve-based zoning (on/off, TRV, manifold actuators) will slowly but surely become the new standard for state-of-the-art system design. Like many concepts it will take time to be implemented by the masses, but the "early adapters" will definitely set a trend that others will follow. We've seen that happen with PEX, microbubble air separation, mod/con boilers, pumping away, and other concepts we now consider "mainstream." This technology will also further differentiate the advantages of hydronics versus forced air distribution.

    Revisit these thoughts each time you design a new system.

    siggy
  • heatboy
    heatboy Member Posts: 1,468
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    Seminar was certainly.......

    .....eye opening and the best part (aside from the bars) of the week. Here is something to ponder. The whole idea of 2.5 watt circs is the coolest thing coming, but what do we do with the small condensing boilers that require ridiculously high head pumps just to get the water through the HX? Save here, waste there.

    hb

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  • Guy Woollard
    Guy Woollard Member Posts: 82
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    low pressure drop

    There's always the small condensing boiler with the LOW pressure drop... (sorry, had to...it's my job)
  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
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    high head circs that consume

    1/2 the power would be a good start. That is easily done with ECM circs. And also encourging the boiler manufacturers to port out the HXers.

    Climate Panel installers could also enjoy low wattage high head circs :)

    hot rod

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  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
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    This should be a Grundfos wake up call

    as the contractors that can't break the "wall of pumps" habits will be prime candiates for a more expensive Alpha Pro circ.

    Or another color circ altogether.

    The cat is out of the bag, low power circs are coming to stay.

    hot rod

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  • Cosmo_3
    Cosmo_3 Member Posts: 845
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    quite active

    Nice to see all the posts

    Unfortunately although I have things to add to the discussion, I just got back from working and I gotta get ready for a date.

    yeah, that's more important than the wall. I'll wait until I am married before I hold a woman up because I am busy posting here.....

    Talk to you guys tomorrow

    Cosmo
  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
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    first things first!!



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  • heatboy
    heatboy Member Posts: 1,468
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    HX size is the key.....

    ..... component, more than anything else. The Prestige has, I believe, among the lowest pressure drop of the current crop of residential condensing equipment. Somewhere around 6' for the 110 at 8 GPM? I'm not sure it could/would/should be done, but taking a larger commercial boiler, like the Vertomat, and shrinking it to a residential size should be a much better choice. 80 GPM through a 650 MBH Vertomat has a head loss of about 1'.

    I would hate to think that things like the Glowmore was the blueprint for this era. We all know how well that worked out.

    ECM motors are great, but I think they will be a band-aid covering an achilles heel.

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  • Perry_3
    Perry_3 Member Posts: 498
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    Pristigue on a Monoflow T system

    Best of the old with the new.... with only 1 circ.

    Yeh, I know; no one wants to pay to build a Monoflow T system anymore. Cast Iron Baseboard is cool too.


    Perry
  • siggy_5
    siggy_5 Member Posts: 4
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    low pressure drop distribution system

    Try a low head loss Prestige boiler supplying a homerun distribution system. Parallel beats series and monoflow for low pressure drop, equal supply temperatures, and easy zoning.

    siggy
  • Cosmo_3
    Cosmo_3 Member Posts: 845
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    system view as a whole

    Great points being made here, I see that eventually the market may react similarly to the way we see just about every boiler co now makes a three pass configuration with a swing out door, and an energy star label.

    It may take 5-10-maybe even 20 years but eventually we get what we are asking for....

    Lets also not forget the blowers we are installing for combustion air on jobs that do not include a sealed combustion burner.

    Those who have been counting on pumping away piping configurations with bigger than needed circs for hard to purge circuits will also have to finally invest in purge carts ;)

    We have come a long way in the past ten years, maybe we won't have to wait that long for most manufacturers to offer boilers that have low mass and low heat exchanger restriction to flow....



    Cosmo
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