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Dirt separators

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Caleffe DOES have really good stuff, but did you try to clean the system out first? Is this new or replacement, more info will help.<BR><BR>Dave

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  • RianS
    RianS Member Posts: 104
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    Dirt separators

    I was wondering what brand of dirt separators everybody is using. I have read a lot about the Caleffi and they seem to have a very good product but I can't find a dealer nearby. We have been using Y strainers but have been told they don't catch enough dirt when installed with a mod-con boiler. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
  • scott markle_2
    scott markle_2 Member Posts: 611
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    spirotherm

    Spirotherm makes a trap, it basically an upside-down spirovent. Dirt like air drops from solution in low velocity area around the wire. Won't clog like a strainer. Seems effective See photo, it's is in the left corner
  • Dealer Info

    Hi Rian,

    Please contact me and I can advise you as to a dealer or wholesaler near you.

    For more information on our dirt separators, please check out this link of idronics #2:

    http://www.caleffi.us/en_US/caleffi/Details/Magazines/pdf/idronics_2a_us.pdf


  • Ted_9
    Ted_9 Member Posts: 1,718
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    work

    Scott, is that your work? Very nice.
  • scott markle_2
    scott markle_2 Member Posts: 611
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    Thanks

    Yes thats my work,Thanks for the compliment.

    Only one of the zones is currently operating.The house is a owner built work of art nested on Shwanagung conglomerate cliff,although it's probably years from completion.

    I chose circulator zoning because I expect higher head pressures(quick track)and wanted to be sure of maintaining flow rates if some loops end up getting a bit longer than I might want. Also I may want to overpump a bit to maintain lower delta-T's if the heat loss requires it. Flow meters on all the manifold outlets,for precision balancing.

    Mechanical room is small so compact arrangement,was important. I just put the indirect in, had some concerns about tripping my heating high limit after dhw production,but gb142-24 boiler mass is so low it's not an issue. Although I did set my dhw exchange temperature a bit low- 165, just in case.Seems to provide acceptable recovery with the 46 gallon TT indirect. Also thought this would help with boiler efficiency a bit.

    Unfortunately I'm back to renovation carpentry at the moment, need to promote the heating work a bit more as I really enjoy this work. I've been lusting over the idea of some solar work since the Viessmann solar seminar I just attended.





  • Kal Row
    Kal Row Member Posts: 1,520
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    A hydro isolator would be better…

    Would give you dirt separation, air separation, primary secondary, and a huge point of zero pressure change that all pumps can be pumping away from, - and will save you a bundle, eg in the 4” size, a Spirovent, spirotrap, and primary secondary piping would cost you 3000 – and a 4 inch insulated Caleffi hydro isolator is 2200, and even less, if you buy the same piece under the B&G brand – the Caleffi people are completely clueless to the American pricing structure! They think their products are cheap ;)

    The sudden increase in area and resultant velocity reduction as the water enters it from the boilers on top or from the system on opposite bottom – facilitates air and dirt separation

    There are several manufactures, even taco has one now!!! – and I suspect the spirovent people will too, they would have to be stupid not to – it just makes sense

    a modcon boiler with a hydro isolator = F R E E D O M !!! :
    freedom for dirt, air, boiler loop flow rates, placement of boiler pump, eliminates a system loop pump, etc.. think of it as a pot of hot water, the boiler keeps it hot and the loads use it as needed

    note that since the dirt falls to the bottom you don’t want to hook up the expansion tank and feed system directly to the bottom of it without a vertical tee and a blowdown valve in the bottom of it – I always feed it to a floor drain so that I can blow it down freely
  • wham
    wham Member Posts: 3
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    hydro separators

    cant understand the hydro separator as an effective air eliminator - they just look like a upright air scoop...been there done that not again

    for me - air problems can be a big deal and i cant risk it just for that
  • scott markle_2
    scott markle_2 Member Posts: 611
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    new to me

    I didn't realize that a thread could resurface that way.

    Whats your microbubble resorber of choice?

    Have you tried the spirotrap? They even make a heat emitter from that spiro wire material.
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,398
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    I like the Spiro Dirt device too

    Great for scrubbing out the large stuff, especially when you hook up a small-passage boiler (mod-con or low mass copper tube) to an old, large-pipe gravity system.

    To be smart about it though, you should know what it is you are removing. If initial sludge is attracted to a magnet, I find some rare earth (Neodymium) magnets make great Chia Pets when inserted into a low velocity chamber. I would be surprised if most of it was not iron in some form. Otherwise it is left over dirt from installation or minerals from too much feed water, another issue.

    My personal systems have Neptune Filter Feeders with grades of 50, 10 and smaller micron bag filters. The magnets just drop right in. Stray iron is harvested nicely. If it makes the water "silky soft" as some devices claim, I suppose that is OK too.
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,398
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    I like the Spiro Dirt device too

    Great for scrubbing out the large stuff, especially when you hook up a small-passage boiler (mod-con or low mass copper tube) to an old, large-pipe gravity system.

    To be smart about it though, you should know what it is you are removing. If initial sludge is attracted to a magnet, I find some rare earth (Neodymium) magnets make great Chia Pets when inserted into a low velocity chamber. I would be surprised if most of it was not iron in some form. Otherwise it is left over dirt from installation or minerals from too much feed water, another issue.

    My personal systems have Neptune Filter Feeders with grades of 50, 10 and smaller micron bag filters. The magnets just drop right in. Stray iron is harvested nicely. If it makes the water "silky soft" as some devices claim, I suppose that is OK too.
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • Kal Row
    Kal Row Member Posts: 1,520
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    spoke to the spirovent people at rpa...

    they had the same question, how does it work without a "coalescing" material to grab the entrained air - my answer was: sure if you just insert a hydro isolator with no design changes, it will be a lousy air/dirt eliminator at 4ft per sec - but if you do it right and come from a 2ft per sec boiler header to a 2ft per sec system header it will work like a charm, i have the hard experience to prove it

    they also had a competitor right next to them with a folded fiber honeycomb coalescing material and 6 magnet tubes coming out the bottom to catch iron based particles – with a header attached to it – it looked so confusing I had to explain it to them

    so now they are looking to do one also, after all, all they have to do is weld the bottom 2/3ds of a dirt separator to the bottom of a spirovent and they are done – (they might have to increase the diameter – cause it’s supposed to carry both full flows a 2ft per sec – the formula is – if “D” is the inlet/outlet pipe diameter, you need 4D between upper/lower port and 2.5D across), told them I would test a prototype for them – and i gave them the trade price target for a 4” flanged and insulated unit – also told them to be sure to put sensor wells in the upper and lower middle – cause of a common problem with these – if you have a bunch of low mass boilers on one side and you put the sensor on the system side, then the boiler will overshoot on hi-temp loads like DMHW, and if you put the sensor on the boiler side, then the system might call for the heat but the boiler wont come on for a very long time since the boiler side with it’s sensor is hot and the controller thinks there is plenty of heat on the supply side, a quick fix is to run the boiler pumps in purge mode longer than the typical cycle time on the system side, apx 6min, the correct fix, is to epoxy the controller’s boiler sensor to the middle upper 3rd of the hydro isolator to guarantee flow under the sensor if either side is pumping (on the Caleffi/b&g, you can slit the insulation and just shove it in there – use some of the Honeywell sensor well grease)
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