Steam header drip proposal/large steam boiler.

Unknown

The takeoff needs to be on one side with the equelzair... Don't worry, the steam mafia will be here shortly..

John S.

your opinions, Please...

Hey Wallies,

As always, I'm turning to you for your professional advice.

Had a 1.2 million BTU steam boiler running in a building for about ten years that has always had a waterline & wet steam problem.

The header drip was installed on the wrong side of the header and we simply have never done anything about it. Well, needless to say, the bills have been getting too much to bear so I've proposed a piping somewhat cost effective piping solution to help dry out the steam.

Attached, please find a diagram of my proposal. The addition to the current piping is on the right in dashed lines and no I wasn't drunk when I drew it.

My questions are...

1. Can I expect a problem with water returning to the boiler if I leave the original (wrong-end of the header) drip?

2. Do you see any problems with the areas of welded pipe as far as allowing for expansion/contraction/swing?

All your comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

John



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Daniel_3

1. Yes you may be experiencing problems with returning condensate because the pitch is bringing the condensate right into the rightmost supply and that steam is going to be battling the large amount of returning water during the whole cycle. The equalizer is on the wrong side and must be at the drip end.
2.I don't know anything about welding so I can't answer that.

Take a look at my photochop of your drawing and maybe the real wallies can comment. I'm certainly not a wallie but I did stay at a holiday inn last night

John S.

indeed...

My first question should have been...

1. Can I expect a problem with water returning to the boiler if I don't eliminate the original (wrong-end of the header) drip?



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Unknown

Good question

My thinking is it'll be just an extra equalizer . Nothing wrong with added equalizer capacity .

But will the system return be on the side of the boiler with that equalizer ? And how much piping is in the floor ? Only downside I see is you lose the added protection of a Hartford Loop with that buried piping . Add an extra LWCO just to be safe .

jalcoplumb_7

Where are the boiler connections?

Are they on the top of the boier? Are they on the side like in the drawing?

Was this a hot water boiler at one time?

Steam connections should be on the top.

Jalcoplumb

[Deleted User]

Contact the

boiler manufacturer. Give them the Model Number & ask for the installation instructions the original installer didn't read. Then install the near boiler piping to spec.

Time to cut your losses & do it right.

Unknown

I seconded

I seconded what Ron said....

Unknown

I seconded

I seconded what Ron said....

John S.

That would be ideal...

but we're talking about an 8" header, a 15 year old boiler and I'm the owner/welder/steam pro.

Plus the income on this building hasn't been too good the last few years with increased gas and taxes, etc. Area hasn't exactly warranted rent raises either.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

bob young

worth a shot

and can't hurt. drip it on the right where you feel its trapped and call it a day. and weld it being you are a welder . maybe you can use weldolets instead of cutting in fittings

Christian Egli_2

Classical design rules demand rigorous symmetry

I have one system where there is an 8 inch drop header drained on both sides by 2 inch pipes that fall straight down to the floor and connect back to the bottom side of the boiler. I presume all this was done for reasons of symmetry.

Works just fine except for when a valve on these two drain lines is closed which creates a sloped puddle in the header - the exact condition you are describing. I don't know why valves were installed on this job, anyhow, I object to them.

Luckily, these two header drain lines feed straight back into the boiler, and not through choking traps that barf into the remote return system. Not applicable to your sketch John, but there is no sense ever in trying to pump dangerous near boiling hot water spilling out the take off. My two drains work just fine because the steam is stopped at the boiler water line. Foolproof.

Equalizers only implicate the use of a Hartford loop (for venting the top side of an inverted water seal trap) and in most cases the equalizer line is combined with the header drain, for simple piping economy. But there is no reason to absolutely always do so, the two functions are not related at all. In my case, I don't call my two drains by what they look like simply because there is no Hartford loop in my pumped return set up, and thus no equalizer.

I don't ever think headers can be drained too much, so going from both sides is perfectly fine. Alternate ideas, could be to pitch the entire boiler and header to the other side so that your puddle would flow away -- but you'd still be going in opposite flow directions. For that (and maybe this is easier) you could pipe your new header steam take off form the other side where the current drain is.

Seems like more work that your first idea.

I second the weldolet concept and I wouldn't even try to make an appendix shaped drainage. There are ready made weld on cup shape attachments that are used in steam line condensate draining that come with scoops and all. Building on that idea would seem sufficient to me. This is a one item job, so I can't see the effort of hunting down such a condensate scoop, but I'd certainly make one. I would imagine it very simply as the cross junction of your 8 in elbow seam with a new 2 in drain line, laid horizontally and orthogonally just bellow the puddle, with both pipes scalped on their mating surfaces for the passage of the condensate. Then drop the drain to anywhere you want as long as it is below the water line. This would be real easy to weld as it doesn't involve sectioning the current pipes.

I hope I'm helping - and I'm assuming the header is not piped too small to begin with. That would be another problem for which my cross drain wouldn't help much.

Perhaps you need yet another such drain wherever the steam main takes another jump up. Have you also checked the pitch on your main branches and whether they're drained enough. Adding F&noT traps (or plain wet return connections) every 100 ft or at every sag is not a bad idea either. Maybe also your main ends are not draining adequately.

Your last point about expansion stresses makes me worry about your current header and how it c-clamps your boiler (Cast iron sections?). If this is a real worry, than a redone drop header might be of value. Adding an extra drain should change nothing to what is happening now. Add the drain with some threaded fittings for swing action.

There, and now, my header is drained.

Best of luck with your pipes John.