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System 2000 Oil Heating -

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Ronnie_2
Ronnie_2 Member Posts: 3
I agree with Norm 100% We are also a dealer Of EK in Mid-Coast Maine and last year we installed 73 system 2000 and have saved our customers at least 30 percent and some has much as 60. So it for me it would be an easy decision...good luck!!!!!!

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  • Jim_64
    Jim_64 Member Posts: 253
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    Energy Kinetics System 2000

    I'm looking at replacing a 20 something year old weil mclain boiler in my home. I have 3300 SF and 4 zones. I've been considering the Energy Kinetics System 2000. Does anyone have this system installed? Will it save me close to 40% on my fuel bill as advertised? Is it a reliable system? Any info provided will be appreciated!
    thanks .. bigron
  • Paul Fredricks_3
    Paul Fredricks_3 Member Posts: 1,557
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    Check out this thread and see if you find your answers. This is from the last couple of weeks:

    http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&&Message_ID=339672&_#Message339672
  • Jim_64
    Jim_64 Member Posts: 253
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    Interesting thread

    Paul,

    Thanks so much for your link to the thread. There were some good / bad thoughts on the EK System 2000. Seems like if you go with this system, it needs to be installed properly and maintained correctly. Both dealers in my area are premier dealers (at least 20 installs per year) and both know the system well. (Both offered the same layout). I'm upstate NY (Dutchess County) and both are large companies with lots of support, one of the dealers has had it installed in his home for 13 years and loves it (he showed pictures). Just wanted other opinions .. If anyone else likes / dislikes the EK2000 drop a note. Thanks!
  • Alfred J. Kauth
    Alfred J. Kauth Member Posts: 8
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    System 2000

    Dear Sir,

    I have a first generation EK-1
    Installed in 10/90.
    Direct vent,before this was the norm.
    Five zones and a 40 gallon indirect storage tank
    Here's the kicker, I also have three daughters all over 15 who enjoy showering.....alot!! a real lot..man it's alot...
    Not once in 17 years has this system ever let me down, I maintain the unit myself, with the help of a local RE Michel dealer in Allentown, PA
    I really never had any thing to compare this to,all that I can say is that it works great and is super reliable and quite, easy to maintain and that after 17 years in my garage I enjoy the safety yellow cube in the corner, and so will you!!!
  • Jim_64
    Jim_64 Member Posts: 253
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    NICE!!

    That's what I'm looking for. I just recently heard about the system 2000. I've been using a coil in my weil with no indirect tank. Last year I went through 1120 gallons of oil. And with the dishwasher and showers, the boiler is always running. 17 years and low maintenance .. thanks for your input!!
  • Norm Harvey
    Norm Harvey Member Posts: 684
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    I'm an EK dealer and the system 2000 is my number one choice for oil replacement boilers. I have never worked with a better company, or better people.


    All of my customers enjoy the system 2000's I've installed, and of all the makes and models of boilers I have put in over the years, nothing prompts the complimentary letters I receive from my customers like a system 2000.

    There are only 3 parts on this boiler that you cannot buy in any supply house. The digital manager, return sensor, and the insulation/chamber.

    Although I, or any of the other EK dealers in my area have yet have a problem with the digital manager, if there was, you simply need to remove the "B", "S", or "R" wires on the left side of the manager to put it into bypass mode were it operates on its high limit aquastat. So there is no danger of a prolonged no heat condition.

    If the return sensor fails, it operates in by pass mode as described above.

    The insulation/chamber does not "fail" if it is deemed that it should be replaced after 10-15 years during an annual maintenance inspection, it is a very simple replacement that is not time sensitive.

    For all the features and savings that a system 2000 offers with the described worst case scenario conditions,.. its a no brainer for me.

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  • Jim_64
    Jim_64 Member Posts: 253
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    Norm

    Thanks for the input. I'm a home owner and for me this is a big purchase. I want to make sure I get it right. I've heard good things about this system, but I'm now hearing that a 3 pass system is also very efficient(Burnham MPO). Does the EK2000 save your customers on oil? Last year I went through a lot of oil and this system has a higher cost than the others.
  • Will_5
    Will_5 Member Posts: 85
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    EK vs MPO

    Just some food for thought.........

    I had a customer last year that had a 10 year old System 2000 the had developed a leak, he had complained a that it had cost him a good deal in parts over the years and wanted something different. I installed a Burnham MPO with a reset control and an indirect, the fuel usage over this past heating season was nearly the same with the MPO actually doing a little better. This was based K factor. In my opinion any savings claimed by EK can be achieved with any modern 3-pass boiler and a control strategy if properly sized and installed, the other benefit would be non-proprietary parts if there were to be a problem down the road. I am certainly not knocking EK as the make a fine product, the boiler itself is not where the true fuel id achieved. I've been installing the MPO's with reset controls over the last few years and made many homeowners happy with the savings. Either way you go compared to what you have now is going to show terrific results, your really just splitting hairs.

    Just my opinion
  • scott337
    scott337 Member Posts: 38
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    It's all a numbers game....

    Efficiency? When is a boiler most efficient? When it is not running. Make sure the house is well insulated, good windows are in place, weatherstripping, etc. THEN consider your boiler. Surely your 20yr old Weil lasted a long time and was efficient for its time, it was also probably pretty durable. EK System 200 is a good system, won't deny it. A 3 pass boiler will do well but I'd try a Slant Fin Eutectic Series 10 or 20. You do want QUIET Comfort after all, not just efficiency. Right?
  • bigron452
    bigron452 Member Posts: 18
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    EK Dealer

    Thanks guys .. Now here's the a new twist. I have 3 dealers offering me the EK2000 .. One for over 10K, one for 7800 and one for 7300. The two higher prices are from what they call premier dealers (they do more than 20 installs a year) the cheapest guy is new and this will be his first install. Is experience big with this product? From some of the other posts, it seems like it needs to be installed properly and maintained correctly. Is it worth going with a new guy to save 500 bucks?? I'm thinking spend the money and make sure it's done right. Thoughts??
  • Rich P_3
    Rich P_3 Member Posts: 34
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    When reviewing there proposals, did you compare more than the boiler ie outside air intake installed, same water storage tank, same amount of zones any provisions for future zoning and last but not least
    service area- or competent service team
    This is food for thought
    I have been a an EK dealer for 2 years and an EK installer
    for 6 years
    Great system
    you will be happy
    Rich
  • Jim_64
    Jim_64 Member Posts: 253
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    Are the zone valves worth it?

    Actually I got another price today from another premier dealer (huge dealer) which is only $400 dollars more than the one I'm considering. He's says he's offering Honeywell zone valves (vs. Erie zone valves.. looks like what he wrote) and a Taco automatic mixing valve (anti-scalding valve), which he says the other guy won't install. Is the anti-scalding valve standard? Are the differences worth $400??
  • heatboy
    heatboy Member Posts: 1,468
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    The boiler matters little...........

    ....when it comes to overall efficiency. I installed my first EK in 1989 and still do all of the service and maintenance. This particular system started out as a heat pump conversion and has evolved to running radiant, Runtal, baseboard and DHW. No major service issues. I also have done service on one that a competitor installed with a "radiant" system and it was using 3,000 gallon of fuel in a 3,500 square home. It's always the distribution and control srtategy (or lack of) that dictates fuel usage.

    I have since moved on to what I consider to be better offerings, but the EK is a good piece of equipment. You should be asking more hydronic general questions of your installers than boiler specific blah - blah. That will give some insight into whether you are going to save fuel of not.

    hb

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  • Jim_139
    Jim_139 Member Posts: 61
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    The Honeywell zone valves have a one year warranty, Erie has a three year. They have an excellent track record. The mixing valve is not standard but is required by code in some areas.
  • Jim_64
    Jim_64 Member Posts: 253
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    hydronic questions

    Ok, since I am looking for fuel savings .. what type of hydronic questions should I be asking to make sure I will save fuel?
  • Lyle C
    Lyle C Member Posts: 96
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    Hydronic Questions to save fuel.....

    Big Ron,

    1) Do you have training in combustion analysis and do you know how to use a computerized combustion analyser.

    2) Assuming that any good contractor can pipe a system well. Are you any good at wiring boiler controls. Can you write or follow a electrical diagram and what kind of boiler control training do you have?

    3) Do you have a Heating Degree Day analysis from any of your past clients showing some energy improvements from before to after completion?

    4) Do you frequent the wall, seminars or read books to constantly improve yourself?

    5) Do you have a passion for energy efficiency?

    John Ruhnke

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  • bigron452
    bigron452 Member Posts: 18
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    Questions

    Thanks for the questions, I'm taking notes and have another guy coming in on Monday. I want to make a decision soon so that I can get the tax credit. If anyone can think of anything else I should be asking please let me know. thanks
  • Darrell
    Darrell Member Posts: 303
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    Four questions to ask:

    1. Will you give me three references from customers that you have worked for in the past three years? Then call them. They may be unhappy...not necessarily a strike against the contractor, sometimes it is hard to make everybody happy.

    2. Will you give me the service records of three similar systems to what you are trying to sell me? Look for call backs (did he go back in a timely manner), component failures (may have a bearing on your equipment choice), tweaking controls (normal), etc.

    3. Can I see your crew at work? You are forming a relationship that will have them in your home, with your wife, kids, pets, and personal things. Are they the type you want in your home...permission to profile is implicit in the question! Is the job site clean and well-ordered? (May not be their fault). Do they take the time to be professional or are they rude and condescending? Are they playing "Satan Worshipper Music" loud enough to scare the neighbors...(might be an issue with you!!!).

    4. Do you do your own service work or do you refer it to a service specialist? If he doesn't do his own that's not a strike against him...service is way different than installation...but get the name of his preferred service tech and check him out too. Ask the service tech about the contractor...he may hate following him around cleaning up after him...or it may be a very functional relationship between them. If he does his own, does he have a service tech in house or does an install crew have to drop and run from a contract job to answer your call? He may not do service, or you may elect to have your own service company take care of your equipment...nothing right or wrong with either choice...do your homework.

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  • bigron452
    bigron452 Member Posts: 18
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    Very good question

    All excellent questions and things that I need to know for this purchase. Thanks to all for your help!!
  • Ken_40
    Ken_40 Member Posts: 1,320
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    If you read the thread...

    You know I am not a fan of the EK, especially when a boiler that gets minimally 10% better AFUE, certified, efficiency is on the market - getting over 93% AFUE. That would be the Monitor FCX.

    Regarding which of the three EK installer to choose, it has little to do with how many EK's anyone insatlled; but rather how many any-brand boilers he's installed, and what he really knows.

    Then too, is a "suit" doing the estimate, or the installer? Remember, the overhead of larger companies is typically reflected by the size of their Yellow Page ad, the number of employees needed in the office and similar not so obvious differences.

    Price is NOT a gage to quality. The guy who installs the boiler - regardless of the company he works for - is everything.

    If the low ball price guy has been around the block, has been in the biz for at least 5-years and can provide references you can call, go with him. If still in doubt, this article I wrote a few years ago may be of some help:

    http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbviews/2004/good_contractors.asp



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  • Todd_27
    Todd_27 Member Posts: 21
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    Weil Mclain Ultra

    Don't overlook the Weil Mclain Ultra. You have had many good years of service from the present unit, so why not try the latest oil boiler from Weil? Very nice and very quiet. Also, all parts are off the shelf at a regular plumbing heating supply, instead of going dealer direct.
  • john_83
    john_83 Member Posts: 76
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    Weil ultra with outdoor reset worth the money.
  • bigron452
    bigron452 Member Posts: 18
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    Thanks

    Guys I've seen a lot of posts on this site about the system 2000, some good, some bad. I've heard from folks that have it and they all seem to like it's operation and fuel savings. I've decided to purchase this system and it'll be installed next week. The 3 pass systems came close, but because of space limitations, the 2000 is a better fit. Thanks for the input it was a big help with making the decision. Over the next year I'll give you my take on savings (if there is any!) Thanks again
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