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TSP concentrations

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Rocky_3
Rocky_3 Member Posts: 232
Will go with recommendations. Have a recycler in Anchorage that we are working with. Just have to get 29 55-gallon drums 365 miles south to Anchorage. Recycler charges $50 per drum just to haul it down, plus "X" amount per gallon. $65,000 bid just for glycol.

Thanks for the heads up on the jiffy-lube type places taking glycol. Will check with them to see what they would charge to dispose of. May save a few bucks in transportations fees.
Regards from not-so-chilly- Fairbanks, (80+ today), I am going to go jump on my new river boat and go fishing. ITS FRIDAY!
regards,
Rocky

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  • Rocky_3
    Rocky_3 Member Posts: 232
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    For cleaning heating system

    What percentage TSP is recommended when adding to an existing boiler system that has never been cleaned in about 20 years? Am flushing old glycol and cleaning with TSP. Any thoughts on how strong the TSP solution should be?
    thanks,
    Rocky
  • JB_8
    JB_8 Member Posts: 85
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    TSP

    One cup per 100,000 btus general rule.
  • Ken_40
    Ken_40 Member Posts: 1,320
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    That's a good rate!

    It depends on two variables:

    The amount of water in the entire system.

    How filthy the system is.

    A huge gravity conversion system would need twice that rate. Generally speaking, 1-cup/100MBTU's is fine.

    I do not know this to be a fact, merely conjecture on my part: If you simply put the raw (granular) TSP in an opening (tyically the skim tapping on steam, the pop-safety relief tapping for water) some may fall or get caught in a low-flow area of the boiler block - and disolve so slowly as to not partake in the desired result - a detergent like cleaning. I always took the TSP and put it in a half to one-gallon of red-hot water (3-5 gallon plastic pails are perfect) of hottest water available, dissolving over 90% of the granules completely in the stir, the trailing "TSP silt" being close enough to being dissolved as practical - pour it in too - and went from there.

    Trace amounts of high pH TSP seem to always remain, despite thorough rinsing/skimming. Ths is a GOOD thing! Whatever traces of TSP remain raises the pH and when that occurs, internal rust is minimized and the entire system protected by far more than mere "cleanliness." The trace amount is in fact a rust inhibitor.

    I have heard that aluminum materials (boilers or other components) are not happy in TSP. I suspet the sodium aspect may be corrosive to Al. Nonetheless, thorough rinsing is especially important in these instances, but hardly more than a passing comment, not some huge red flag we need to obsess over.



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  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,158
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    I'd consider the Rhomar 9100 cleaner

    for closed loop hydronic systems. It has a lot more "good' stuff blended in to clean, buffer the ph, and leave a film behind. It is multi metal friendly and glycol compatiable.

    TSP sounds fine for steam systems as it leaves the ph a tad high. Can you still buy "real' TSP up there? Lot's of places only sell the phospate free stuff. Not quite the punch of the good old stuff.

    hot rod
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Rocky_2
    Rocky_2 Member Posts: 89
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    Real TSP

    We have an old hardware store here that you can find just about anything in. A real dinosaur compared to the box stores, but if you have some hard to find item, trust me, Samson's Hardware will have it, from oil drip stoves to pike poles. They still have real TSP. This is going in a water system with about 85 gallons of fluid. Have 17 of these buildings to do. They want the old (25 year old) ethylene glycol blown out, system cleaned, flushed, and new 50/50 propylene put in. Should be a lot of work. Will probably dissolve the proper amount of TSP in hot water then pump it into system and let it circulate for a few days, then dump and flush.
    So, any ideas as to actual volume of TSP in a hot water heating system?
    REgards,
    Rocky
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,158
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    TSP

    is merely a strong soap, ph around 11. i doubt you could over mix it. Use the directions on the box for an idea of max. strength mix.

    Burnham once had TSP blending info in their installation manual, perhaps still in their "Heating Helper" booklet?

    I'd flush the old EG out first, dispose of properly of course. If it will go into the city sewer system first check with them. They may notice large quantities of bright colored fluid entering the plant :)

    Most states have glycol recycling info on their websites. Quick lube joints will usually take it also.

    I doubt the system is really dirty to begin with?? What does the glycol look and smell like? Ph?

    Unless it has gone to glycolic acid and dissolved some of the metals the system may be surprisingly clean.

    Flush it and run it with the strong TSP for a day or so.

    Either buy pre-mixed glycol, or be sure to use DI water to blend the new stuff.

    Most all the hydronic glycol manufacturers will sell you 55 gallon drums blended to your spec. I know Dow, Nobel, and Rhomar offer that service.

    Sounds like a good paying job :)

    hot rod
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,528
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    One pound

    per 50 gallons of system content.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Ken_40
    Ken_40 Member Posts: 1,320
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    I have used another formula too;

    that being, 1 cup per 10 gallons of water.

    You do the math. We buy TSP by the 50# pail. The pail is a 5-6 gallon plastic job, like joint compound comes in.

    Cost? about 85-cents/lb. - wholesale. The stuff is the real deal. Comes from China. What doesn't (;-o)

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