Made the switch—carpet to wood.

Unknown

If its a weil mclain GV-5 boiler, I believe the boiler have its own pump and mixing valve built into it and that itself maintains minuuim(sp) temp. Yes, u'll need to pull out the I&O manuel..

Rick in Anchorage

Made the switch—carpet to wood.

We recently switched to Kahn’s engineered floating hardwood floor – from berber carpet in our 20 by 24 sun room. The carpet was down for about 5 yrs.

The room is radiantly heated using a Weil McLain boiler, Model GV5, 140000 BTU.

We need to supply the new Kahrs floor with cooler temps--- the specs: “surface of the floor should be 81 or less”

The minimum setting on the boiler is about 130 degrees. It also has an aquastat thermostat – which I can set lower.

My question--- what are the downsides of running this boiler at a very low temp??—Say about 100 or 110 degrees?

Thanks very much-- Rick

Yooper Rick

Thermal shock to the cast iron at low temp will be a problem

Yooper Rick

Thermal shock to the cast iron @ low temps will be a problem.

Rick in Anchorage

Even if---

Even if the low temp is 'constant'?

Yooper Rick

I believe Weil-McLain's cast iron boilers must see minimum of 140 deg return water temp.

J.C.A._3

RiA

Get thee a copy of the I and O manual.... See the section on boiler piping, and look under System By-pass.

Then get yourself a copy of the Taco wiring guide...and look into the i-Radiant 3 way valve.Between these 2 guides....the light bulb will shine right over your noggin! Chris

ALH_4

Mixing

You need a mixing valve or injection mixing system.

Tekmar Mixing Methods Essay

Glenn Sossin_2

Boiler protects itself

"When the water returning to the boiler is below 140 °F, the GCM regulates the bypass circulator
and system circulator flow rates to raise the return water temperature up to 140 °F before it enters
the boiler sections. By balancing these flow rates, the GCM can protect against condensation even
if return water is as low as 60 °F." excerpt from manual.

Rick in Anchorage

I and O

Uhhhh-- I and O is ???? (Sorry-- I am a DoItYourSelfer)

Rick in Anchorage

Already have one but---

I already have one--- is a
Wirsbo 1 IN A540xx0102.
At 140 degrees boiler temp it will temper down to 110 degrees at 'leanest' setting.
Not quite cool enuf

Ted_9

Good question

Installation and operating manual.

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Rick in Anchorage

Made the switch—carpet to wood---- Take 2

My thanks to all who have helped me so far!

I stated the wrong boiler-- here is a redo of my first posting---

Made the switch—carpet to wood.

We recently switched to Kahn’s engineered floating hardwood floor – from berber carpet in our 20 by 24 sun room. The carpet was down for about 5 yrs.

The room is radiantly heated using a Weil McLain boiler, Model GV5, 140000 BTU. THIS WAS NOT CORRECT—It is a Weil McLain Gold GV (series 2) boiler.

We need to supply the new Kahrs floor with cooler temps--- the specs: “surface of the floor should be 81 or less”

The minimum setting on the boiler is about 130 degrees. It also has an aquastat thermostat – which I can set lower.

My question--- what are the downsides of running this boiler at a very low temp??—Say about 100 or 110 degrees?




All your comments tho are accurate.

I think what I need is a different mixing valve-- one which allows 'more tempering'.

Please see the 3 enclosed attachments. They show my current environment.

Does anyone know of a mixing valve which will bring down the 140 degree water to about 90 degrees (or maybe a bit less)??

hr

That's a lot of boiler for 480 sq. ft.

are there other loads on the boiler? Does it provide DHW via an indirect tank?

If not I would consider another heat source. First off a heat load calc. But at 81 max floor temperature in a space at 68F you will only be able to provide about 26 BTU per square foot.

So 480 X 26= 12,480 required btu. Now if a heat load calc shows you need more BTU to heat the space, supplemental heat may be required.

Sunrooms, with a lot of glass, can be a hard space to heat with only radiant floors. Sometimes :)Only a load calc will answer that question, correctly.

If in fact 12,480 is your "final answer" load number you might consider a small electric heater. A 3500 watt electric tank or boiler would do the job. Thermolec builds some small modulating electric boilers. Then your whole mixing quandry becomes a non issue. Electric boilers don't need return protection.

The GV Gold was my favorite boiler for many years. It really needs a primary secondary piping with either a thermostatic mix valve, like you show, or other mix devices for the radiant loop. That becomes a lot of piping and fitting for such a small space.

But with 140K you will have horrendous short cycling if in fact the load is what I "guesstimate"

hot rod

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Glenn Sossin_2

honeywell

use B 60 - 100 or C 80 - 120 range

agree with HR sounds like you are oversized

Rick in Anchorage

Heats more than just---

The boiler was installed when an addition was built about 10 yrs ago. The total addition space was about 1400 sq ft. The contractor determined that the old heat system couldn’t handle the new addition--- plus redundant heat sources seemed like a pretty good idea to me! Plus-- the dream at that time was to possibly do another radiant loop to the 'old house' beneath kitchen and dining rooms-- but never done.

Darrell

Be aware that a realized "floor surface temperature" will very likely require a higher "floor supply temperature". The two are not the same measurement. The difference will depend on big words like "insulative value" "emissivity" "conductivity" etc. Design into your mixing strategy some room to push up the supplied temperature in order to realize the desired/required surface temperature. Also realize that the floor manufacture will have designed into his warranty statement some latitude for failed controls and high heat load days. In reality any floor temperature much above 80 degrees gets to be uncomfortable for your feet...whether it is enough to heat the space or not.

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Rick in Anchorage

unconfortable to the touch-- Really?

Interesting-- You say-- a temp above 80 degrees would be uncomfortable to the touch. The human body is 98.x degrees-- wouldn’t 80 degrees 'feel' cool??

Curiously, Rick

Rick in Anchorage

Are these valves still made?

Are these valves still made?

In the specs it states-- The thermostatic element- spring-slide plug assembly is available as a replacement part.

Are parts still available for Wirsbo mixing valves?

Here is the pic I previously posted for this valve>>>

http://forums.invision.net/Attachment.cfm?CFApp=2&Attachment_ID=29557

http://forums.invision.net/Attachment.cfm?CFApp=2&Attachment_ID=29556

If this valve is still made, I wonder if I could replace with a different thermostatic element- spring-slide plug assembly – one with cooler tempering capabilities?? Much less fuss!


Wirsbo has changed names – is now Uponor.


OOOhhhh—just found this--- http://www.pexsupply.com/Categories.asp?cID=213&brandid=

Have sent them an email.

Darrell

Yeah, I forget the official number, but, at some point the floor temperature that your feet feel will be sensed as too warm. It will feel good for awhile, but then not so good. Seems like the Wirsbo design manual had a temp statement of 80 something...when I get out to the truck I'll see if I can find it. In any case, your suppled temperature will be higher than the surface temperature...maybe quite a bit higher depending on your installation.

How about if I quote none other than Dan Holohan himself...In his book, "Hydronic Radiant Heating" in chapter two he explains very well about the sensed, or realized, floor temperature, and on page 17 he states that "the goal of any hydronic radiant system is to make the floor a maximum of 85 degrees F on the coldest day of the year. If the floor is too hot, you'll feel uncomfortable because you'll retain too much heat."
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