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2\" new bushing not holding 100 psi with old threads

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doug o'connor
doug o'connor Member Posts: 17
radiator cast iron threads that has been tap but won't hold 100 psi with new brass bushing. Should I epoxy bushing in place or?

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  • ALH_4
    ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
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    Thread Sealant

    You might try Loctite 545. It will seal most anything. It can be taken apart, but only by heating the parts to soften the sealant.

    edit: Just a note. Do not sweat solder near this sealant. In my experience, excessive heat seems to change the properties and leaks can occur. The heat of the system running is not enough to affect it.
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,398
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    I have to ask

    why 100 PSI? I mean, it is a nice round testing pressure but CI radiators are not often used at over 30 PSI and not tested over 60 in my experience.

    Great if they hold at 100 but I have treated shrapnel wounds before and they are not like paper cuts.

    :)

    That said, LockTite.
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating
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    I vote for rectorseal

    but I think even more important, is to clean the male and female threads with a wire brush. Watch how smooth the thereads go together. You will practically eliminate leaks. Bob Gagnon

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  • bob young
    bob young Member Posts: 2,177
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    go black

    use a black steel bushing . w/ lampwick & permatex. with proper wrench& torque problem solved
  • doug o'connor
    doug o'connor Member Posts: 17
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    100 psi

    The inspecter is asking for 100 psi for testing, san franciso
  • doug o'connor
    doug o'connor Member Posts: 17
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    retroseal

    i clean threads and new bushing and used retroseal.
    still leaked.
  • Tony Conner_2
    Tony Conner_2 Member Posts: 443
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    What...

    ... code requires the testing of cast iron rads to 100 PSIG? Is this a steam or hot water system? What are you using for the test fluid? Please say "cold water" and not "compressed air".
  • bob young
    bob young Member Posts: 2,177
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    LAMPWICK = NO LEAK

  • Tom Hopkins
    Tom Hopkins Member Posts: 554
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    100 psi!

    100 psi seems a little over the top. I can't seem to locate a lampwick supply here int he midwest. I would love to use it on my 2" and larger. I found a product called W.O.G. Water, Oil, and Gas. Can't remember the mfgr. It's red and smells suspiciously like permatex gasket sealant (for you old school gear heads, pre-silicone). It's known around the shop as "the red ****" as opposed to Leak Lock which is "the blue ****.

    For troublesome joints, any good sealant type pipe dope, with a few wraps of teflon tape, AND a small wipe on the female threads, AND let it sit for a day before applying pressure...should hold.

    I've actually used hi-temp silicone and teflon tape on a steam return that I nicked the female threads with the sawzall cutting out the nip....it worked!

    Good Luck
  • bob young
    bob young Member Posts: 2,177
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    lampwick----they got it

    www.wal-rich.com/
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
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    50 psi over operating pressure...

    i too ,think your inspector is off track...introduce him to the Mechanical code....hey! why not? thats part of the job no one pays us for :)) *~/:)

    all suggestions so far are workable pieces of info....i like the Industrial blue magic...retro seal...thats good black with lamp wick thats a goer...565 locktite.. i would say Brad and Robert are steering your foot on the right path with adherence to the mechanical code and not some wish outta the blue by the inspector...
  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
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    Hight temp RTV silicone

    and teflon tape should do the trick. As others have said, 100 psi testing seems a bit high. Is this in the written code or something the inspector made up?

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  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928
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    100 psi for radiators used for residential or light commercial space heating???

    Talk about excessive...

    If the joints in questions already failed the test and you first tried some "extra" tightening instead of undoing and re-making the joint (I probably would have done the same) nothing may hold that pressure unless you use a hardening-type dope like Rector Seal and let it SET for a while before testing.

    I've repaired/re-sized quite a number of radiators and my test is via hose pressure--around 60 psi here. I don't sweat a tiny weeping leak at that pressure and at least two that "weeped" at that pressure survived a runaway hot water boiler at 240F or so (as reported by the owner).

    Your inspector may be demanding a truly ridiculous standard requiring a polite "show me" request...

    Mike T., Swampeast MO--the "Show Me" State...

  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928
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    If you MUST meet this standard I would suggest replacing the bushing with a bell--for whatever reason bushings seem inferior to bells.
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,884
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    Then you have

    bada threads.

    Look at the threads on boht surfaces, something has a groove in it.

    Scott

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  • Plumdog_2
    Plumdog_2 Member Posts: 873
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    test pressure

    "Twice the working pressure or 100 lbs whichever is greater". Some of them interpret this literally.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,540
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    Mike T is right.
    Replace the bushing with a reducing coupling if you can. The reason is the bushing is hard and won't conform to any irregular pipe threads. A nipple and a reducer --the nipple threads will conform to the fitting better because the nipple is hollow it will conform -even turn slightly oval if it has to to conform to the threads. A bushing can't do this. Thats why bushings leak. Use teflon tape and your favorite pipe dope inside and out (sparingly)

    Ed
  • Lyle C
    Lyle C Member Posts: 96
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    rectorseal

    I'll agree with Bob on the rectorseal But on trouble Joints sparingly dope up the female threads.And use rectorseal and wicking on the male threads . The bead of pipe dope inside the fitting will be forced into the problem. My Dad swung a sprinkler wrench for many years testing to 300 psi always swore by wicking.
  • Dave Stroman
    Dave Stroman Member Posts: 765
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    Be careful. Using some sealing methods can result in a cracked casting, if you have not cracked it already. I have done it before. Dope only the male and female threads. That usually does it. You can also try disconnecting the radiators and pressure testing only the piping. Maybe he will accept that.

    Dave in Denver

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    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • mwsmith
    mwsmith Member Posts: 10
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    i'd make the Inspector sign off on liability for the result's of that test

    that radiator was never meant to see 100#

    I also would't stand around during a test like that...

    KaaaaaaaPOW .... !!!!
  • doug o'connor
    doug o'connor Member Posts: 17
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    loctite 545 seals bushing under 85 psi water test

    It was $32 for a bottle of loctite 545. After 24 hrs of curing I connected the hose (85psi), filled the radiater waited an hour and had no leak.
    Alot of good suggestion from everyone, thanks
    I used retroseal first but didn't work. Cast iron thread where a little pitted from rust.
    Using a more forgiving fitting with lampwick or retroseal is good. Thanks for the psi info and its dangers.
  • Alan(OnVacationInOregon)Forbes
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    Super Dope

    My trusty friend; never fails me; you don't even need a wrench (hand tight); anaerobic is the key.

    I'm in Berkeley and we used to (I'm retired now) do a lot of work in the City. SF is a strong union town, but they have adopted the UPC. Talk to your inspector, but typically they want to see a minimum of 100 psi on the system piping, not on the radiators.

    Alan
  • Tom Hopkins
    Tom Hopkins Member Posts: 554
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    Super Dope?

    Alan, congrats on your retirement. I guess I missed that post. I assume you mean semi retired. A hydronician like you never gives it up altogether...do they? All that knowledge can always be tapped for a fee :)

    Am I a "super dope" because I've never heard of the stuff?
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,884
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    YA

    that retirment jumped off the page at me too ...

    Good For You Alan.

    Scott

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  • Alan(OnVacationInOregon)Forbes
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    As of

    June 1st, but things haven't slowed down yet since it will take a few more weeks to finish up all the jobs we had going.

    Tombig: That's quite observant of you; yes, semi-retirement is what I'm after. I still enjoy working with the tools; the plan is to work my butt off in the winter and play in the summer.

    As far as the Super Dope, it's gotten me out of many a jam.

    Alan
  • Steve Ebels_3
    Steve Ebels_3 Member Posts: 1,291
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    My $.02 worth

    Having skimmed through all of the suggestions and taken note of the fact that "California Forbes" is retiring, here's our simple never fail method.

    My absolute never fail, always faithful, industrial duty, not a drip in sight, top secret (no longer) STUFF is....................drum roll here....................... Loctite thread cord #55.

    Put about 4-5 wraps on the male thread and give it a thin coat of your favorite pipe dope. It even seals BST threads, NPT into BST and visa versa. It NEVER leaks. If you're fussy about it you'll want to trim the stray cord which sometimes hangs out of the fitting. Extra work, yes, but that labor doesn't hold a candle to taking things back apart to fix a drip. Especially when the customer calls you back a year later to bring the now rusted mess to your attention.
  • Unknown
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    One Word

    EXPANDO
  • Tony Conner_2
    Tony Conner_2 Member Posts: 443
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    Tricky To

    > EXPANDO



  • Tony Conner_2
    Tony Conner_2 Member Posts: 443
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    Tricky To Spell

    X-pando. If you google "expando", you'll get a bunch of sites that have nothing to do with pipe thread sealant.

    http://www.xpando.com/pjc.html

    The product info says you CAN get joints apart after this stuff has set, but my experience is that most times, it's a pretty brutal job. We've hit a few joints that just wouldn't come apart.

    If you've got the time to let this material set (usually 24 hours), I can't imagine a threaded joint leak it couldn't cure. It'll handle any fluid service I've hit, but I believe there are a few that it's not suitable for. The cure time takes it out of the running for a lot of process piping repair or maintenance work. If it affects production, the process guys want the line back in service 15 minutes ago.
  • ALH_4
    ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
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    545

    I'm glad to hear the 545 did the trick. It's relatively expensive stuff, but each joint requires very little, and I have never had it leak. 545 is what Caleffi recommends as thread sealant for their brass manifolds.
  • Tom Hopkins
    Tom Hopkins Member Posts: 554
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    All that being said......

    Would you (anyone) use lampwick or loctite string or xpando on EVERY joint of three or four inch on a steamer? All the steam and return fittings? All the joints on a large house (2" main) low pressure gas piping system. At least the main tees?

    My most problematic are copper thread adapters. I found a supplier with brass ones. A little pricey but good results.
  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
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    X-pando

    I've seen a 6" joint put together with x-pando leak with 2 psi steam. They had to hire a welder to fix it. Since x-pando is not the be-all and end-all, and it is practically impossible to take apart again, I would be reluctant to use it. Stuff that seals reasonably well 99% of the time, but is reversible, would be better IMHO.

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  • Unknown
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    crusty xpando

    Gordo,

    On large joints, two wrenches and a man with a hammer. Stike the joint three or four times with pressure on the wrenches and presto, all apart, everytime.

    I have only seen xpando not work when someone used a can that had crust on top of the powder. We learned that if the powder is crusty, toss it.

    wheels
  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
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    Dealing with X-pando 'd joints

    Thank you very much for that tip on dealing with x-pando'd joints. Another addition to my bag of tricks. Thanks again!

    It would be just my luck, however, to crack a cast iron fitting as it is smacked with a hammer to break x-pando's death-like grip on the threads.

    X-pando violates my ethos of: "make it easier for the next guy...the next guy might be you".

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This discussion has been closed.