hard water & Rinnai. Asking for problems?

Paul_73

I want to thank all of you very kind folks for taking the time to reply, and help me out. I REALLY appreciate the friendly replies. All the information is of great value to me.

After doing some more research and talking to a couple of Rinnai owners, and some industry friends, I have decided to go with my original boiler Buderus GB142/30, and a Superstor Ultra. My wife will not go for a water softener, and I don't want to take a chance on ruining or having recurring issues with the Rinnai hardening up. The Superstor (even after adding the circulator controls and piping) appears to be a few hundred dollars less and that doesn't include the venting & exhaust that the Rinnai requires. (also, I have limited exterior surface area for the placement of these pipes).

I'll be reading and posting a lot over the next month or so.

Again, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the friendly atmosphere here. Thanks so much for the info.

Paul.../NH

Paul_73

Replacing Boiler and HWH. Hard water issues with Rinnai?

Greetings,

Great place you have here. Thanks for hosting such a wonderful forum.

I am located in NH and I am starting a replacement of my boiler (24 year old Burnham RS110), and a 52 gal elec HWH in the next month or so.

Because of the unique way in which we use our heat (very frugal) I was thinking that a boiler and HWH with little or no water capacity would be the most efficient. I have 3 baths. One full, one 3/4 and one 1/2 (with laundry). There are only two of us using the house most of the year (2 kids in college during the school year).

We use programmable Tstats. M-F we keep the base temp at 58. From 5 pm to 9 pm we up it to 68. At 9 pm it goes back to 58. Weekends are set at 68 from 9A to 9P both days. We currently use about 500-600 gals of oil/year (no DHW from the boiler). We also supplement a little with a wood stove.

The boiler has a 1/2 inch tankless coil that plugged up after about 4 years of use (from new). I have since bypassed it and go directly to my electric.

I am thinking on replacing the boiler with a Buderus GB142/30 (yes, converting to LP) and the electric HWH with a either a Rinnai R98i or a R85i Plus. But after reading some of the posts in the Tank and the Wall, I am concerned that I may have the same issues with it plugging up as did the tankless coil due to hard well water, and I am also concerned that it may just not supply enough HW for us. During the summer there are rare times when 2 showers will be used at the same time. Otherwise the worst it would be is a shower and perhaps a dishwasher or a washing machine at the same time.

Would I be better off leveraging the DHW circuit off of the Buderus with a super-stor or similar? My basement remains at about 55-60 in the winter, and 60-65 in the summer. My well water is about 40 degrees in the winter and a little warmer now. We like our HW at the faucet to be around 105-110 deg. One of my concerns is that I want to get away from keeping a large store of water heated. (I do that now with the electric) How much heat loss will there be from a 30 or 45 gal superstor in the basement? This is why I was thinking tankless. The Rinnai has a slightly more expensive initial outlay than the Superstor.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Thanks for the opportunity to post.

Paul.../NH

Mike.C

I have installed many Buderus GB's Wonderful boilers!!
I think your best bet would be the Buderus with a indirect tank. The Buderus can keep up with a domestic water demand better than a typical water heater. 100k+btuh compared to 30-40k. I also instal many Rinnai's. Cost wise you will pay roughly the same for the Rinnai and venting or for the indirect tank and pump. Good luck with your project.

Mike.C

hr

my vote

would be for the boiler with indirect tank. You may be able to use a 40 gallon indirect with the DHW load you indicate. The boiler may in fact keep up with a small DHW load on a "instantanous" basis.

Keep in mind hard water will effect ANY heat exchanger surface. Including the coils inside the indirect tank.

You might consider a water softener, at least on the hot water side to extend the life of whatever system you decide on. And also keep the heat transfer efficiency at it's best.

The Buderus tank with large smooth coils or any of the other smooth coil tanks seem to handle hard water better, from my experience. Triangle Tube Phase 3 tank in tank design is also a great match for hard water conditions.

Are you sure about those incoming water temperatures?

hot rod

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JackFre

I represent Rinnai in New England

the Rinnai will do an excellent job on your hot water load. For your house you want an R53i, not the R85 or R98. The 53 and 85 have identical output with our cold ground water here in NE. The 98 has greater output but at a significant cost increase.

You must feed your equipment good water, regardless of what equipment you select. Get a complete water anaylsis done, step one. As well, analyze the current heating equipment location vs proximity to your primary hot water use points. Do not simply locate the Rinnai where the boiler is. Don't perpetuate the mistakes made by the original low cost bidder.

The Rinnai will do an excellent job for you. If you care to discuss this further you may call my cell at your convenience. 617 834-8751

clammy

buderus

Do yourself a favor and if your using the gb142 then go with the buderus st150 tank ,i have installed many of them and they all have been in service for at least 5 to 7 seven years and not one promblem ,the best benefit from them is that the top manhole may be removed and the unit can be cleaned very easily as for temp lose i believe about 1/4 of a degree and hour ,hooked up with a gb142 and you are as good as gold ,get your gb with the outdoor reset and save some coin peace and good luck clammy

Gary_15

Rinnai water flow

You'd have plenty of hot water with the 53i model Jack suggested. I installed one yesterday here in PA and ran the kitchen sink, two lavs, two showers and filled the washing machine simultaneously with no reduction in water flow and certainly no change in temperature. We just used one controller at the unit, set at 120 degrees. I do have a number of Rinnai customers who look at their website and decide they'd like to go with a "bigger unit" to be sure they'll have enough hot water. Unfortunately it does not address the different flow rates are based on water temperature rise, so the larger untis do not always create more water flow. Hats off to Jack and my local Rinnai rep Mike Cahill for guiding people towards the right unit for their application, not more than they need.

Rich Kontny_4

Jack

Have some questions relative to well water and and the pressure fluctuations (along with water quality) when using a Rinnai unit. Could you contact me?

kontnyrichard@yahoo.com


Thanks

Dave_4

Paul

Also in NH. How many grains of hardness in your water? A softener is often cheap insurance and i would treat the whole house, your dishwasher nozzles, etc. will love you for it. So will the wife with less shampoo, etc. being used now that the water is softer. Standards are 4 grains of hardness and up....treat it, 3 or less it is up to you