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kickspace heater and constant circ

Brad White
Brad White Member Posts: 2,399
Take a hard look at the kitchen heat loss versus the degraded performance of the kick space heater at lower water temperatures.

It may well work but as Hot Rod said, you could risk a cold draft even if it contributes heat. I tend to find KSH's drop off more in practice than other coil units thus require a slightly higher water temperature than other emitters. If you set your baseline temperature this way, you will lose lower-end modulation range as you know. Tail wags dog.

On paper is one thing but I have never seen as good performance as I would like unless you run hotter water. (Not a fan of them in general so accepting the limitations).

The lower temperature switch is essential if you are relying on water temperature to trigger the fan. Absent that, a room t-stat jumpered across the snap-on temperature switch to trigger the fan can work as well and be more directly responsive to the room's needs. When the fan does not run the cabinet will be toasty.

The variable speed control feature is worth it even if a retrofit. You can use that to tune the air volume to increase the air temperature. This will reduce overall heat output of course but it is a tool for you to use.
"If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



-Ernie White, my Dad

Comments

  • Wayco Wayne_2
    Wayco Wayne_2 Member Posts: 2,479
    I am installing a

    Buderus boiler with the logomatic control, and was going to use constant circ with the indoor sensor. But then I remembered the kitchen is going to use a kickspace heater that turns on when the water temp gets hot and figured that is not a good match. If the water temp isnt warm enough the kickspace wont kick on, and if the water temp is warm enough the heater will run all the time. What's a brutha to do? WW

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  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
    Some brands include

    a lower temperature fan switch. I know the VRV's use to. If not you can buy a lower, or even adjustable, snap switch to replace the one shipped.

    Or go a step further and use a nice digital setpoint control, that would give you more differential adjustment. Snap switches can be slow and inconsistent in the diff. dept.

    I don't know that you could go much below 100- 105 turn on or risk a cool draft :)

    hot rod

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  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,662
    TK with constant circ

    We jump the snap switch and set the min circuit temp to 120. No cold air blowing out.

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  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
    They suck

    dog hair and other floor debris like crazy. Not unlike a refrigerator coil :) Performance drops quickly with such a small coil area.

    Install them with some Onix to allow you to pull them out for a cleaning.

    Also watch the flow rates, fairly small diameter coils that don't work well in a baseboard loop, for example.

    hot rod

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  • Tom Hopkins
    Tom Hopkins Member Posts: 554
    Kickspace

    I've changed out the factory thermo-disc to a lower make temp for reset applications. I always install a switch in the cabinet to kill the fan totally. They are very loud and at higher water temps they "drift" enough heat out with no fan as long as the HO isn't storing food in the cabinet.

    Most have hi-low fan speed switches built into the unit. You could install two thermo-disc aquastats and play with low-hi speed actuation depending on temp.

    The 110V wall stat sounds like a good idea. If it's that cold in the (I assume) kitchen then the stat operating the zone can't be too far behind to start circulating.

    A little trick. If the cabinetry allows, create a "cold air return path" thru the toe space from the end of the cabs near a window or door and cut an intake grill into the cabinet. Or create a gravity flow from the basement underneath as long as it's not a spider filled crawl space. The "Dead Men" taught us that and the physics hasn't changed. These units intake from the front sides and discharge out the front middle...you can improve on that with some creative thinking.

    ...and they do get dirty!

    Happy Independence Day to all of you. I've got nothing but fireworks and music planned till Monday.

  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928


    What type(s) of emitters in the rest of the house?

    If nicely conductive radiant floors or old standing iron rads, I'd suggest that the available constant circulation temps will be incompatible with any kickspace heater at "typical" outside temps.

    If so, and the kickspace must be used, you'll [probably] have to operate it as a separate high-temp zone with mixing valve.

    In any regard, if full reset is used with true constant circulation you could easily wind up with the unit blowing "cold air" in moderate weather unless the kickspace fan is true VS (or multi-speed) and operated via an appropriate thermostatic controller.
  • Wayco Wayne_2
    Wayco Wayne_2 Member Posts: 2,479
    I originally

    had specified a radiant floor with plates in the Kitchen, but they got cheap on me. They have radiant floor in slab in the exercise room next to the Kitchen. I would think the Kitchen needs more heat than the exercise room. You make your own heat in there. The rest of the radiators are convectors, but according to my heat loss they are oversized and I was hoping to use the constant circ with the indoor reset sensor that comes with the Logomatic control, and max out the efficiency. I was considering using a wall tstat to bring on the fan. Maybe it will convect enough warm air to satisfy most modrate condiditons. Thanks for all your help. WW

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  • kevin coppinger_12
    kevin coppinger_12 Member Posts: 27
    Wayne...

    you may find that the higher outside temps may make the kickspace heater not need unless at design day...I would do the lower temp sensor and leave it at that...They probably cheaped out on the radiant floor heta but still went w/ the wolf/viking stove..that will crank out the BTU's...kpc
  • Wayco Wayne_2
    Wayco Wayne_2 Member Posts: 2,479
    Ha!

    I wish. I shouldn't malign my poor customers. I got them to upgrade in many other areas, especially the boiler and indirect. They are probably buttoning their billfold pocket every time I walk in the door. :) While I'm at it, is there any particular brand that any of you would recommend? Thanks in advance. WW

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  • Tony_23
    Tony_23 Member Posts: 1,033
    What about

    How about a steel panel-rad ? May cost more than a KS in material, but less in labor. Certainly cleaner.

    Kitchens produce a lot of heat. Frig, stove, lights. I wouldn't size a rad based on appliances, but it gives wiggle room.
  • Tom Hopkins
    Tom Hopkins Member Posts: 554
    Mfgrs

    Beacon-Morris and Embassy come to mind
  • laurence salvatore_2
    laurence salvatore_2 Member Posts: 86
    kitchen kick space

    We just had the same situation with the same boiler and controls less the constant circulation. In our case we made the kitchen toe kicks their own zone on a monoflo loop. I'm thinking a 120V thermostat or 24V and a relay to the toe kick's might be an easy soulution. That way you are not messing with the factory settings and the fans only come on when th kitchen is cold. Beside the afore mentioned brands, there is The Quiet One (brand name) which seems to be quite good.
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