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swimming pool heating

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Tom Hopkins
Tom Hopkins Member Posts: 554
Supplemental heat is needed for the pool. Supplemental heat is needed for the space. This unit is first and foremost a dehumidification unit. It's not designed to heat the pool water or heat the enclosed pool space. Supplemental either way are just a benefit derived from the expense dished out to keep the structure from crumbling around the pool due to high humidity.

My first installation of this equipment was wrapped up in a 100K+ rehab of an existing indoor pool that was less than 20 yrs old. It's a classic pay me now or later situation. If you don't have humidity control in the space it will soon be an unintended outdoor pool regardless of the construction.

The pool needs supplemental heat via a heater or boiler. The room needs supplemental heat via a strip heater in the ducts or baseboards,radiant, etc. off the boiler. The dehumidification manufacturers do a fantastic job of reclaiming waste heat energy while they're saving the structure. Rarely if not never is it enough to suffice for pool heat or room heat.

Comments

  • Ed_32
    Ed_32 Member Posts: 33
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    Swimming pool heating

    A customer bought a house with an indoor swimming pool, the house had been vacant for years, probably because that over the years the previous owners had continually change the way the swimming pool had been heated, leaving a room full of obsolete equipment that includes a 5 Sq ft open tank with a copper coil heat exchanger. The new owner plans to remove all of this and start from scratch (yeah!). I am trying to see if the existing oil boiler for the baseboard heat would be capable of heating the swimming pool, thru a heat exchanger of course. The only info I can find on sizing is either Burnhams heating helper or Triangle Tubes web site. As far as the Burnham formula for the initial heat up it doesn't seem to take into consideration the heat loss from the surface of the pool, (item #1, page 28), it shows - 30,000 galons x 8.34 x 20 (desired temp rise) divided by 48 (the # of hours to bring up to temp) = 140,250 btuh. following this formula I would be led to believe that I can use less btu's and take longer to bring it up to temp. But their next formula (item #2 page 28) shows that with a 10 deg temp difference between pool surface and room air with a 800 s.f. surface I would need 84,000 btuh to just maintain the pool temp. I guess they figure that as you are bringing it up to temp initially the water is lower or the same as as the air and there won't be much heat loss. The home owner figures on a water temp between 75 and 80 with a dehumidifier in the pool room, the rest of the house will have air conditioning but not the pool room. I don't know if the dehumidifier will lower the room temp, so they may have a pool room temp that is equal to the water temp. The existing boler is a Buderus G115 oil boiler with gross output of 98,000 btu, I'm afraid that the boiler would run constantly in order to maintain temp. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank's, Ed.
  • ALH_4
    ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
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    Pool HX

    The Triangle Tube MaxiFlo heat exchangers are a nice way to go. Guy Woollard at Triangle Tube (he posts here frequently) has been very helpful to me. Flatplate also has some information related to heat exchanger sizing and some general pool heat loss calculations.

    Keeping the room as close to the pool temperature as possible and covering it whenever not in use will cut the heat loss significantly. Pools are an excellent application for solar heating also.
  • Tom Hopkins
    Tom Hopkins Member Posts: 554
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    Weil Mclain

    Try this one from W-M. TT makes their HX's

    http://www.weil-mclain.com/downloads/literature/heatex/wmphlit.pdf

  • Unknown
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    W/M

    I've used the W/M works very well. They DO require you top put 12" of stainless nip on either side of the heater before hooking it to PVC. Did you see my thread concerning the 5 year old but unused pool room dehumidifier? Its a few threads down the list.
  • Tom Hopkins
    Tom Hopkins Member Posts: 554
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    $$$$$

    Veeerry pricey, those SS nipples!!!
  • Ed_32
    Ed_32 Member Posts: 33
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    pool pak

    thanks for the info, I'll check it out.
    Ed
  • Unknown
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    Thanks,,,

    I have a knack for leaving out the main point. VERY expensive indeed!
  • kevin coppinger_12
    kevin coppinger_12 Member Posts: 27
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    Also check out...

    thermaflow /everhot...very nice unit...kpc
  • Unknown
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    Just be sure...

    I'm thinking the pool pak needs additional heat to heat the pool. Don't rely on it to do the whole job of heating unless you confirm that it is capable of doing so. Unfortunately I am not that familiar with the model.
  • Unknown
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    Thank you...

    I appreciate your helping me to keep this straight! I don't want to misinform or unintentionally mislead anyone on this.
  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
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    Tom nailed it

    the humidity will be a big issue, and search out equipment that handle that load and adds to the heat load at the same time. Perhaps the pool heat loads will fall to a more managable level with nthe de-humid equipment adding to the pot.

    hot rod

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  • Ed_32
    Ed_32 Member Posts: 33
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    Thanks for all of your help, I'ts amazing the collective knowledge that's gathered here, I learn something new everytime I visit.
    Ed
  • Home Depot Employee
    Home Depot Employee Member Posts: 329
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    Add Heat

    The key is to maintain the room temp 1-2 degrees warmer to reduce pool water evaporation thus have some control over humidity. But as always, 99.9% of the time a central dehumidification unit is required. Thus get one that will reject the heat via the condenser to the pool for "free" pool temp heat.
  • Unknown
    Options
    Ed,

    > A customer bought a house with an indoor swimming

    > pool, the house had been vacant for years,

    > probably because that over the years the previous

    > owners had continually change the way the

    > swimming pool had been heated, leaving a room

    > full of obsolete equipment that includes a 5 Sq

    > ft open tank with a copper coil heat exchanger.

    > The new owner plans to remove all of this and

    > start from scratch (yeah!). I am trying to see if

    > the existing oil boiler for the baseboard heat

    > would be capable of heating the swimming pool,

    > thru a heat exchanger of course. The only info I

    > can find on sizing is either Burnhams heating

    > helper or Triangle Tubes web site. As far as the

    > Burnham formula for the initial heat up it

    > doesn't seem to take into consideration the heat

    > loss from the surface of the pool, (item #1, page

    > 28), it shows - 30,000 galons x 8.34 x 20

    > (desired temp rise) divided by 48 (the # of hours

    > to bring up to temp) = 140,250 btuh. following

    > this formula I would be led to believe that I can

    > use less btu's and take longer to bring it up to

    > temp. But their next formula (item #2 page 28)

    > shows that with a 10 deg temp difference between

    > pool surface and room air with a 800 s.f. surface

    > I would need 84,000 btuh to just maintain the

    > pool temp. I guess they figure that as you are

    > bringing it up to temp initially the water is

    > lower or the same as as the air and there won't

    > be much heat loss. The home owner figures on a

    > water temp between 75 and 80 with a dehumidifier

    > in the pool room, the rest of the house will

    > have air conditioning but not the pool room. I

    > don't know if the dehumidifier will lower the

    > room temp, so they may have a pool room temp that

    > is equal to the water temp. The existing boler is

    > a Buderus G115 oil boiler with gross output of

    > 98,000 btu, I'm afraid that the boiler would run

    > constantly in order to maintain temp. Any

    > thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

    > Thank's, Ed.



    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Technical Development

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • Unknown
    Options
    Ed,

    > A customer bought a house with an indoor swimming

    > pool, the house had been vacant for years,

    > probably because that over the years the previous

    > owners had continually change the way the

    > swimming pool had been heated, leaving a room

    > full of obsolete equipment that includes a 5 Sq

    > ft open tank with a copper coil heat exchanger.

    > The new owner plans to remove all of this and

    > start from scratch (yeah!). I am trying to see if

    > the existing oil boiler for the baseboard heat

    > would be capable of heating the swimming pool,

    > thru a heat exchanger of course. The only info I

    > can find on sizing is either Burnhams heating

    > helper or Triangle Tubes web site. As far as the

    > Burnham formula for the initial heat up it

    > doesn't seem to take into consideration the heat

    > loss from the surface of the pool, (item #1, page

    > 28), it shows - 30,000 galons x 8.34 x 20

    > (desired temp rise) divided by 48 (the # of hours

    > to bring up to temp) = 140,250 btuh. following

    > this formula I would be led to believe that I can

    > use less btu's and take longer to bring it up to

    > temp. But their next formula (item #2 page 28)

    > shows that with a 10 deg temp difference between

    > pool surface and room air with a 800 s.f. surface

    > I would need 84,000 btuh to just maintain the

    > pool temp. I guess they figure that as you are

    > bringing it up to temp initially the water is

    > lower or the same as as the air and there won't

    > be much heat loss. The home owner figures on a

    > water temp between 75 and 80 with a dehumidifier

    > in the pool room, the rest of the house will

    > have air conditioning but not the pool room. I

    > don't know if the dehumidifier will lower the

    > room temp, so they may have a pool room temp that

    > is equal to the water temp. The existing boler is

    > a Buderus G115 oil boiler with gross output of

    > 98,000 btu, I'm afraid that the boiler would run

    > constantly in order to maintain temp. Any

    > thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

    > Thank's, Ed.



    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Technical Development

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • Unknown
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    Ed

    Actually, the Heating Helper does include a correction factor chart to overcome the Ambient Air to Surface Temperature differences. Some browswers may block you from viewing the chart though because smoe of the online files were created in an older version od Adobe or equal software.

    Here is a copy of an article I wrote a couple of years ago for one of the trade publications
    that depicts the correction factors and other issues. Hope this helps.


    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Technical Development

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
This discussion has been closed.