steve pajek/gerry gill's latest steam boiler installation pics

tim smith

Gerry, I do not wish to create problems, but in this day and age I always look out for the backside. I agree, it is alway possible to do many things but I just wonder is it worth it. I have done many out of the box burner mods etc but I had one problem that made me really think. Good luck in all your endeavors. Tim

gerry gill

gotta love Mouat systems

Our latest steam boiler install was a fun one. This house was pretty darn big. It would have required a commercial burnham boiler. The catch is that as big as the house is, there is just the owner and his girlfriend. There is a ball room on the third floor as big as my house, and with as much iron as Steve has in his house. The owner naturally wants to close off many radiators, and only open them when company comes to visit. And he’d only open the ball room if he’s having a party. This created a control issue for sure. The owner just wanted to put in a smaller boiler. We said that we couldn’t do it, as he may sell the house and the next owner may have many kids and want to open all the radiators and the boiler would have to be capable of supplying them all.
Our solution was to install two burnham boilers, one larger than the other. We manifolded them together. Now this is a Mouat Vapor system so we installed low fire capability to the larger boiler. The system also has a false waterline installed. Because it’s a vapor system we don’t need to equalize it, just provide a siphon break, and we do this with just an open pipe. The open pipe also will keep the system from ever filling with water to the first floor, should there be a feed valve failure. Of course Mouats gauge glass will do the same. Keeps from accidentally wiping out 100, 000 dollars worth of hard wood floors should something leak, if the system filled with water. This practice can be used on vapor systems. Works well. We also installed a flushing connection on the return piping.
The control strategy goes like this. The first stage of the two stage t-stat calls for heat, a relay closes and brings the larger boiler on. Its in high fire. This usually satisfies the call for heat. If it doesn’t the second stage of the t-stat energizes another relay, which brings the smaller boiler on. It only runs in high fire. So now there is both boilers in high fire. Should pressure start to build up, a vaporstat at the end of the main will energize the two stage regulator added to the big boiler, dropping it to low fire. We run this system at 2 ounces at the boiler.
By the way, the waterlines for both these boilers are the same height, despite the difference in size. This obviously is necessary. The Mouat gauge is mounted on the equalizer Hartford connection piping. We try to always reuse these old gauges as they are so wonderful for gauging the pressure. We were very pleased with how this job worked. The owner can open and close his radiators as he see’s fit without changing the boiler(s) ability to keep the system in vapor.


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Steamhead (in transit)

A masterpiece!

I sure hope you can get some before-and-after fuel consumption numbers.

Note to Burnham: Those could have been Mega-Steam boilers if you offered them with gas.

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gerry gill

Thanks Frank,

it would be nice to be able to compare gas uasage, but the mansion was vacant for 2 years so we will not be able to check that info..

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Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

great job

Hi Gerry/Steve,

What a terrific install of a wonderful operating concept. That's some great work.

Best regards, Pat

Weezbo

That was worth the wait to open.....

there is a Lot of satisfaction to seeing the Header with fresh eyes once it is made up i think it is good to go outside get a cup o java, have a smoke , look to the horizon,focus on some far point object, come back in and bask away in the light of the header ...*~/:)

She's Beautiful

DanHolohan

Nobody

does it better. Thanks.

Boilerpro_5

Cool....

> Our latest steam boiler install was a fun one.

> This house was pretty darn big. It would have

> required a commercial burnham boiler. The catch

> is that as big as the house is, there is just the

> owner and his girlfriend. There is a ball room on

> the third floor as big as my house, and with as

> much iron as Steve has in his house. The owner

> naturally wants to close off many radiators, and

> only open them when company comes to visit. And

> he’d only open the ball room if he’s having a

> party. This created a control issue for sure. The

> owner just wanted to put in a smaller boiler. We

> said that we couldn’t do it, as he may sell the

> house and the next owner may have many kids and

> want to open all the radiators and the boiler

> would have to be capable of supplying them

> all. Our solution was to install two burnham

> boilers, one larger than the other. We manifolded

> them together. Now this is a Mouat Vapor system

> so we installed low fire capability to the larger

> boiler. The system also has a false waterline

> installed. Because it’s a vapor system we don’t

> need to equalize it, just provide a siphon break,

> and we do this with just an open pipe. The open

> pipe also will keep the system from ever filling

> with water to the first floor, should there be a

> feed valve failure. Of course Mouats gauge glass

> will do the same. Keeps from accidentally wiping

> out 100, 000 dollars worth of hard wood floors

> should something leak, if the system filled with

> water. This practice can be used on vapor

> systems. Works well. We also installed a flushing

> connection on the return piping. The control

> strategy goes like this. The first stage of the

> two stage t-stat calls for heat, a relay closes

> and brings the larger boiler on. Its in high

> fire. This usually satisfies the call for heat.

> If it doesn’t the second stage of the t-stat

> energizes another relay, which brings the smaller

> boiler on. It only runs in high fire. So now

> there is both boilers in high fire. Should

> pressure start to build up, a vaporstat at the

> end of the main will energize the two stage

> regulator added to the big boiler, dropping it to

> low fire. We run this system at 2 ounces at the

> boiler. By the way, the waterlines for both

> these boilers are the same height, despite the

> difference in size. This obviously is necessary.

> The Mouat gauge is mounted on the equalizer

> Hartford connection piping. We try to always

> reuse these old gauges as they are so wonderful

> for gauging the pressure. We were very pleased

> with how this job worked. The owner can open and

> close his radiators as he see’s fit without

> changing the boiler(s) ability to keep the system

> in vapor.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 360&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_





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Boilerpro_5

Cool....

Those look like a pair of Independence steamers. I never noticed they came with High/Low. I also wondered if the small tappings would cause enough pressure imbalance to screw up waterlines.....I guess not! Another step forward in steam effieciency....That's GREAT!

Boilerpro

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gerry gill

Thanks all, we added the low fire

to the boiler BP.. unfortunatly they don't come that way..the waterlines behave just fine once the water was cleaned up(boy that was fun and lenghty)..the off boiler acts as an equalized tank..we never really build any pressure with this design, which is by plan, being a vapor system, so the 2'' tappings don't seem to effect anything..we incorporated things we learned from your multiple boiler installation into this, so thanks for sharing your designs awhile back BP, it helped.

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Mad Dog!!!!!!!!

i AM very PROUD OF YOU TWO FELLA'S work

You really haVE reinvented The Steam of The 21st Century.
Steve & Gerry...Steam Geniuses. Mad Dog

kal_2

great job & thanks for using flanges - why doesnt everone???

it's the height of hubris to think that a boiler install is a one way trip forever – “D-F-D” Design For Disassembly – the knuckles you save could very well be your own

Boilerpro_5

Waterlines..

Yes, it really gets you worried when you first start these sets of boilers up and the waterlines are all over the place. Once they are clean though, no problem. That's why I like using the Slantfins, that skimmer trough really makes them clean up quickly. You've answered my question whether you can use two different input boilers together....at least in low pressure applications. That opens up the possibility to base load oversized vapor systems....Size your first stage to the building loss on the typical day, then using additional boilers to give the the piping pickup and extra capacity for the really cold days. I bet that's one sweet running system...it probably will run very similiar to the old long burning coal boiler that was in there before.

Boilerpro

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Unknown

What an install !

This job should go in Burnham's brochures for steam and be showcased on their website . It really is amazing . And the control stategy is nothing short of genius .

Christian Egli_2

Metering out the brains

With all the flexibility of steam heat why indeed tie ourselves to a one-size-fits-all boiler for all heating needs? This is a smart installation. Gerry, thanks for showing the pictures.

You've also got a great home owner who figured out the steam heat delivers thermal efficiency, performance and heat you can feel - most importantly in large drafty homes.

This thread made my day. Thanks.

BRIANJ

Maxitrol Valve

Gerry, just saw your low fire connection. I understand the maxitrol and the regular gas control valve. What's the device in the middle and what's it's function. Trying to do the same with my Broomell system.

gerry gill

its just a solenoid

gas shut off valve. It came with the boiler because of its size. It has nothing to do with the low/high firing. You won't need it.

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Dave_122

Mouat System

Help educate us who don't do this everyday.

Traditional controls school (I started with pneumatics in the 70's but not with low pressure steam) says to bring on the smaller boiler first, or maybe the large boiler at low fire. If this is a light load day, the smaller boiler may take longer to meet the load, but it will run longer, making the system more efficient and have less on/off cycling.

Thanks for your response.

tim smith

concern on control system

Just a question, due to modifying the boilers combustion controls, you are voiding the Listings of this boiler I think? This is a question for Glenn Stanton who could answer this. I would be concerned that you would have unstable flame at low fire and maybe combustion readings will go to heck. The standard tube burners on these boilers are not really designed for low gas flow and in turn won't pull in proper amount of air with low gas velocity. Just my .02 worth, Tim.

gerry gill

you can do it that way Dave, sure,

or any number of different ways, for that matter..we picked the big boiler to run first at high fire, as it more closely matched the load the owner had talked about haveing left after he shuts off the third floor ballroom.

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gerry gill

Hi Tim,

combustion readings are fine at both firing rates.. basically the same burner set up as the series 5 which we get with high/low capability right from the factory..we always set up vapor systems this way (high/low)..it was taught to us by an 84 year old plumber who worked thru the transition from coal to gas..his favorite boilers were the bryants with the pressuretender gas valve which modulated the firing rate..on atmospheric burner tubes..after they stopped making them in the 50's, this is the method the old timers came up with around here, cause we have so many vapor systems and a single rate gas boiler just wasn't working right on these systems.

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