Since everyone loves pictures

Weezbo

so how did you manage to make your post into newspaper column dimension? taking the vent off the top is always the best idea..

piece of Cake!

must be sheer "will power"

Daniel_3

Here some of the updates of my overhaul. Last night was cooooold! But I can't think of a better time to replace the heating plant. Short main has the (1) Gorton no.1 and the longer main has the (1) Gorton no.1 and a heat-timer varivalve. I was thinking of using a Hoffman 4a but they are hard to find and a tad more expensive (for me). The Heat-timer does have enough venting to almost make it a standard main vent and it can be adjusted once I begin the balancing. I was cheap and went with the two hex bushings rather than a reducing elbow which shouldn't hurt me one bit. The short main end had almost no room even for a street el so I moved it down a bit on the return. I also had to remove an approximate 5 foot section of the 2" main since a radiator in the renovated attic stole the branch riser from the front foyer which I gave back to the poor lad. I'll now need a tee for the attic. The PO's used a 1" riser straight up to the attic to feed a A&R arco 6 column 15 section thin tube that is situated in a small alcove at the top of the stair, no where near any windows. I wish they had used at least 1 1/4". I think using 1 1/2" off the main immediately to the vertical portion should do me well without tearing anything out and replacing. Oh, and there's also a picture of my radiator spoils
EDIT: To make note I would say the white sealant at the end of each fiberglass insulation end is not a good idea. When pulling apart the header insulation I found moisture and some mold growing. The problem is that this stuff will close off the breathing capabilities of the piping and cause excess rust and eventually rot. The problem with my returns rotting could have been accentuated by this issue.

Unknown

Nice job Daniel,

but you may have a problem tying that Gortons into the reduced return like that. Be curious to hear what Steamhead thinks.

Dave

Brad White_9

Pretty Decent Stuff, Daniel

One suggestion, though- the long main vents? You do have good height and all, but I would have held them back about 15-18 inches from the end of the main. What you have now could take a good slug of condensate during warm-up focussed right on and into your Gortons.

A little black paint will save you "Barcode Embarassment" too.

Nice pipe work otherwise. Cannot wait to see the final product.

You seem to be near me in Boston- whereabouts may I ask?

Brad

Daniel_3

Worcester. I am a HO of course so for those worried I am not doing this install by myself but with a very good friend whose been a master plumber for 30 plus years. His only shortcoming is some details that which I have studied in depth concerning one-pipe steam heating. Your right about the longer main vents in that they should be about another 15-18 inches back and 10-15 up. Preferably they should be on a tee and split left to right and then up the 10 or so inches. I was hasty and bored at the same time One thing that urked me was the pitch of the main in that going the 15 inches back causes the pipe to pitch down which will constantly have water in it. I could do some fancy pipework and it will become a Gorton/Heat-timer menorah like Steamhead had said a while back. No embarrassment here though, Brad. In a couple years though I may get little red in the face. China, Thailand, barcodes, oh my!

Daniel_3

This I did consider in detail on where to actually put them. I could have put it before the last branch but I didn't want to try it thinking it may effect the last radiator farthest from the boiler. I wanted to use a tight street ell and then up and over the beam but that may not leave proper pitch and the street ell didn't fit. Like I replied in the longer main concern, the same should done for this short main, maybe 18 inches back beyond the beam and then up 15 to be sure.

Unknown

Well,

if you kept them back as far as you could along that main after the last run-out, then used 1 tee pointing straight-up and tee the 2 Gortons into that branch(of course as high as you can), I would think you would be better-off than what`s there now. Coming off the side of your main with street-90s is not a good idea, in my opinion.

Dave

Unknown

Worchester?

Worchester? Did they lose the AHL hockey playoff to Manchester? Looking at the pictures, where's the Weil McLain boiler? Make sure your plumber FOLLOWS the instruction and understands the steam system... We boiler pros does this many times and do not get bored from doing this, older, yes but not bored...

Daniel_3

No doubt rjbphd. I've actually read through almost the whole manual for the boiler I'm getting and I have infused him with lots of steam heating info as well. He's installed many in his career, none of which I've seen, all of which he has never gotten callbacks from for any problems. I fully trust him. We will go from the table of contents all the way through the entire instruction manual. He believes in all black fittings and copper to be used on the lower wet returns. I will be doing the dropped header since he has never heard of one before and totally agrees with the concept of the driest steam possible. Concerning the all the other issues; skim tapping, control set-up, and settings, he is well versed.

Daniel_3

For you Dave

Here's the new since I'm a fast learner I agree completely with your assessment, thanks.

Unknown

great!

We'll be all waiting for the next wave of pictures! So, you'll be using the Weil McLain? I love the 1-1/2 " skimming opening.. I just use a 4 " nipple with cap instead of plug as they showed in manuel..

Unknown

For me??

but looking at those first 2 pics your not on the main,,and your still coming off the side. And on those last 2, your still on the end. Or are you going to change this?

Dave

Daniel_3

On the first two pics theelbow was changed to a 90 and then to another 90 to be able to properly pitch the whole thing and then back 12 inches and up ten inches which will be fine. On the shorter main there is no way to tee off the main hence the reason I bracnhed it off the return. Even though the tee isn't straight up, as you see it is far enough back and well high enough to restrain any crud from getting there as well as keeping condensate draining properl. On the branch off the longer main would you think crud and scale would actually make that 90 turn and then another 90 turn and through and up that far? i don't think that would be a problem at all. The previous vents were on the return end at the boiler level and only went up about ten inches with one 45 angle and they were there at least 20 to 30 years. maybe the pictures are not giving the proper visual but the lenghts and pitch are certainly satisfactory. How would the vent on the shorter main on the return cause any issue? I don't see any possibility to tee off the main elbow. The cross beam restricts this and only allows about 15 straight up unless you mean to move parallel to the beam and then up.

Daniel_3

Actually I'm going with the Burnham, sorry rj Don't hate me. . .

Daniel_3

I now remember that the vents shouldn't be right at the end of the main for one reason and that is water hammer. I have not had that problem save once when the boiler feed was not shut off all the way and water got into the mains. I think they way I have them set-up is not perfect but will work save I don't have any over-filling problem in the future. It was done with ease and if I wanted them near the end that would require more demo of the main and replacement of a certain amount of 2" section. It's now common sense that the pitch should be right on the mains and dry returns as well as cleanliness and by inspecting the inside of both they are quite clean and theres almost no build-up.

Unknown

What I was getting at,

is the main is as long as the point your vents tie-in, and you have now reduced, a came off the side of even this. Can you not put a 2X2X½ T in on its back and take your Gortons up off from there? You will not be back from the end as far as you should,,but the vents wont last long like that.

Dave

Daniel_3

I see what you mean by this in that the steam won't be stabbing right through the 3/4" 90 and it's nipples at it's purported velocity bringing with it particles and such picked up within the main. I certainly could do that with a 2x2x3/4 with the longer main but unless I cut out the 2" nipple at the back of the tee on the shorter one and reduce the length I wouldn't be able to do it. What do you think will shorten the lifespan of the vents in the current upgraded postion?

Unknown

I`d be

willing to bet they`ll be slow to vent with the condensate "cascading" by that side mounted and undersized tee, which will hold back condensate in the larger 2" main and cause it to hammer, eventually spelling their demise.

Dave

Daniel_3

The water cascading by the 2x3/4x2 tee side mounted, right? And this would hold back the vent rate? I never had water hammer before with the previous 2x1 elbow which is basically the same if not less capacity then the 2x3/4x2 tee that is there now. Concerning the vent rate I don't know but to keep vents on the end of the return near the boiler will certainly help move the condensate along, right?

Unknown

I was talking

about the tee you have on your short main now, after the bushings. does not look like 2X2X.75 to me, or perhaps I`m looking at it wrong.

Dave

Daniel_3

Oh that one. That is a 1x1x3/4 and now I know what you mean.

John@Reliable_14

A little black paint will save you \"Barcode Embarassment\" too.

Brad, you kill me!

Steamhead (in transit)

What I'd do

is reorient the 2 x 3/4 x 2 tees at the ends of the mains so the 3/4-inch is at the high point, then come out with a short 3/4-inch nipple to a 45-degree ell pointing up and install the vents on that. Sure, they'd still be right at the end, but there'd be much less chance of the vents getting nailed by slugs of water.

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bob young

burnham

smart call bro. weil mc lain would have been a mistake

Daniel_7

It's past the haiku stage

Daniel_7

On the Pond
A curled duck feather
catches the breeze

Brad White_172

No it's not....

#1

Boiler well installed-

Piping straight, plumb and robust.

Yet, I see bar codes.


#2

Steamer waits for fall.

Hartford Loop sits there at peace.

Orange apron laughs.

Daniel_7

Orange apron laughs, that killed me

Daniel_7

Thanks Steamhead . . .I applied a swift palm to my forehead because of that. You think I would be able to figure that out but that's why we have the Wall because there's always someone there who has common sense. Consider it done, I just need a close nipple and I can get the 15 inches out and 8 inches up.

Steamhead (in transit)

Be sure to post

the updated pics!

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Daniel_3

Sorry Dave that I didn't it in this first post by you, duh to me