Trenchless Piping Viability

Weezbo

so ,i just got home...how about this ,tomorrow morning i will dash over to one of by buddies who happens to run the municipal systems ...while i may not have every corner nailed down at what you are out to accomplish,... He most likely does, each and every day , day in day out...i will ask him to twist in a few thoughts and Hey! maybe you will have mucho information on which to steer...

Last year Singh was considering doing a passive air Green type home and about the same time i was starting to put the one we were to do on the back burner...however, not without doing a considerable amount of "leg" work running down as many alternative means of accomplishng certain tasks.... i can say that it is fairly certain that it is much easier for a guy with the right tools to install not that you could not do alot of work and make certain things that would "work" ...like the curing time for instance it has certain "environmental" requirements as it were this requires something outside of guess and by golly control...

maybe it would be easier to talk to him...typing is not my forte... the guy can likely write a book *~/:)

D107

Anyone had experience with this?

I put this website info and other attachments on the current GREEN thread. Weezbo commented generally on some of the complexities/expenses of the process.

http://www.nuflowamerica.com/trenchlesstechnology.htm

In my case we're planning to reline a 50 year old clay sewer line. They would use the winching method vs the inversion method. The attached pdf compares the different piping techniques available and pros and cons of each.

The Nu Flow method, alternately called CIPP (Cured in Place) has only a few negatives that I can see. One is that mistakes cannot easily be corrected; and that in some cases the lining material can bunch up at the bottom before it cures.

One company has offered a 5 year limited warranty which is not good enough for me. Ten year and completely transferable warranty would be a proper minimum in my view. CORRECTION: The installing company has clarified that their 5 yr warranty is above and beyond the manufacturer's 10 yr warranty and will cover any problems from normal use within a five year period.


Price seems to range between $90-$100 a foot, which is ultimately less than trenching a new pipe in. Price includes thorough cleaning and small repairs. It seems that relining a 50 year old clay pipe that we know has a bit of root entry is not a bad idea--repairing it before it becomes a major problem. On the other hand I could have it cleaned once a year and hope for the best.

Thanks,

David

Rich Kontny_3

Flex

I have scoped several clay tile sewers that have dropped and cracked at the joints due to a support being put under each joint leaving the length of the pipe not supported properly.

In northern ststes there is a great deal of pressure exerted downward during heavy frost season. Will a lined system take any flex or will the material crack???

The per foot price seems very excessive unless there are driveways,sidewalks or street cuts to make.

MP 1969

D107

Thanks; some additional info

I spoke with a tech person at NuFlo headquarters. Nuflo I believe is one of the primary manufacturers and originators of this cured-in-place repiping. His company offers a 10 year transferable warranty--limited of course if pipe is damaged somehow due to misuse. His company's reps come down to the installers workplace and train the workers directly. Their method is 'winching' rather than the inversion method. Inversion requires one pit to be dug at the house end of the sewer; winching does not. Supposedly winching cuts down on the tendency for the uncured liner to bunch at the pipe bottom. They use a polyester or epoxy resin backed with felt.

The other issue is how far out from the house the new lining should reach. One contractor told me they stop a foot away from where it joins the street main. Nuflo told me they go all the way and have a very thin circle ring that connects to the inside of the street main, which helps secure the entire lining run. The Dept. of Public Works in my town --who has done this kind of lining on their own for some of the mains--has only two concerns. One is make sure traffic cones are used while the manhole is accessed to pull the lining material through and also to make a 'flush cut' of the lining so as not to create any obstacles in the main. I will try to get some diagrams of Nuflo's circle ring to re-assure the town about obstructions.

There are issues about doing this process when it's very hot out; curing times can vary, which can be difficult for customers who'll have no access to their sewers for the curing duration. Also if it's raining heavily, there could be issues with groundwater entering pipes that have cracks or holes, thereby interfering with the curing process.

I think the price per foot--which includes the entire job, from camera inspection/videotaping, and cleaning, relining, to the final re-inspection depends alot on how long the cleaning takes.

I guess, as with mod-con boilers, this process may not have been around long enough to determine its long-term endurance.

As with so many house projects that sneak up on you, I have plenty of other projects waiting on line and wasn't anticipating this, but I tend to be big on preventive maintenance. However I don't think the videos of the new lining will thrill any prospective buyers when and if we ever sell the house.

My instinct tells me that a 50 year old clay sewer line which already has roots growing and probably a few holes is a candidate for this process. Other processes like pipe-bursting etc present their own problems--and more digging.

Weezbo I greatly appreciate your offer to speak to a colleague of yours about this process.

Thanks,

David

The Wire Nut

FWIW,

we replaced the clay lines... every year, this place had an appointment with the RotoRooter folk. The new PVC lines give us peace of mind. However, ours was a different situation... we already had a huge digger on site to dig out the foundation... putting in a new gas, water, and sewer line was a small additional cost.

I too would inquire about the structural integrity of the liner. However, if you feel good about the company and the warranty, I suppose there is nothing wrong with trying this kind of an approach.