Radiant sand application

kevin coppinger_4

heard a few non-professionalls try it but I have seen it no where in any radiant manufacturer lit. kpc

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Ted_9

have you done this

Has anyone done this. I have a customer that wants to use sand with sleepers under 3/4 pine.

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jp_2

the beach

you ever been at the beach when its real hot?

sand is hot, push away a thin layer of sand and its cool below? thats call poor heat conduction! who wants poor heat conduction in their heating system?

hr

some beach

I'm not sure who started the sand concept. Sounds a lot like the "free cooling" train of thought!

Sand is a poor conductor of heat, settles when the floor vibrates, finds it's way thru the smallest of cracks, and is an excellent breeding and nesting ground for insects.

The filler between the sleepers really should contact the flooring for conduction transfer. Any air space will really hamper the transfer.

If it were me I would go with transfer plates and sleepers for the best low temperature "connection"

hot rod

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Unknown

once upon time there was

Once upon a time there was 2 brothers, one brought a building and busted out the broken concrete, before pouring new floor, he installed copper tubings ( cheap back then) in sand thinking to protect the heating from cracking with heavy equipment.... Years later, the other brother loved the RFH, built a building with ploy tubings in concrete, the result, tubing in concrete heats up 3 times faster than the heat sucking sand job...even both did not have insulation underneath or border around the perimter... Someone told them (their forced air buddy) it wasn't needed ....

Ted_9

sand

OK, I felt the same way guys. I even said some of the same things. I was told by the GC that sand is a great conductor and it is used in concrete so it retains heat.

Seriously, I dont know much about the method and I need to be armed with knowledge.

Thanks for the responses guys.

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Weezbo

i dont know where it got started buh...

back in the early 60's there was a lot of interest in solar heating in Bermuda and i read everything and any thing i could find....some of my readings went to some scientific news letters and science news weekly...in one of those periodicals was an article on the best way to heat your home and store radiant heat insulate the perimeter etc etc... clouded though the thoughts get over the years i still know that it was about 1967 or so that i was reading the back issues like comic books, zooming through back issues.....the newsletter is like 4 pages as is the Science News all kinds of good science and research physics bio medical electrical engineering ...Look in the local Library for issues and try the topic Radiant perimeter insulation...i am sure you will find it.

Unknown

we did one once. Sand with a slight mix of portland cement in it.

The only job we ever did that just never did what it was supposed to. Some areas worked fine, others didn't. My conclusion is that it's near impossible to guarantee a good, long term compaction and thus consistency of output (and thus performance) is very hard to guarantee.

Without a cement mix, this is just a very bad installation method. Might as well go suspended tube. if they want cheap.

Steve Ebels_3

Ran into a job.........

A guy called a couple years ago and explained that he had a "sand system" that didn't heat. At the time I had never heard of anything like that so I went to have a looksee. Frankly, I couldn't believe what he was telling me and had to see it with my own eyes.

His fuel bills were ginormous and he said when he installed an outdoor wood fired heater he couldn't throw wood in it fast enough. I finally recommended that he abandon the system and install some panel rads or baseboard, which he did.

Seems that he got the plans for the system from a certain internet "radiant" company that we all know and love.

Greg Gibbs

Sand works GREAT!

As long as the sand is wet, and outside. I worked on this job a few years ago... The radiant tube was installed to keep the track from freezing. The track is located in Loveland, Colo. This track runs dogs from Jan. to late May. They wet the track every morning, no matter what the OAT may be. (approx 10,000 gallons of pond H2O)
If the track would ice up the Dogs would not be able to run. There must be a little $$$ coming in from the races.

Mark Hunt

Funny thing is


there are still people out there that design systems like this.

We are involved in a solar/rad project right now and the solar guy thinks sand is a geat thermal storage base. He wanted the HO to dig a huge pit and fill it with sand to act as a "dump zone/thermal storage" area.

Not gonna' happen, but I was amazed that he even mentioned it.

Mark H

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Brad White_110

Things one never knew...

How would anyone outside of the design/installation team know such was done? Thanks for sharing.

They could rake in more $ if they let the track freeze. Sort of like ME's dog Louie and the office accident about a week ago.

Ted_9

thanks

Thank for the support guys.

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Greg Gibbs

Brad

If you keep your mind open, you can do a lot of fun stuff
with Hydronics...The key to this job was the water...
I became friends w/ many of the people @ the track, they even let me bring my son up for a visit after the job was complete. Lots of fun! -Greg