closed loop vs open loop radiant floor heat

Marnie N.

We are putting radiant floor heat in our new home. We are also putting in an on demand hot water heater that will heat the floor water as well as the house water. Our heating contractor suggested an open loop system that has a card to circulate the hot water every 12 hrs to keep it from getting stagnant. We are thinking that a closed loop system would be better to separate the domestic water from the heating system water. What are the pros and cons? Help please, thanks Marnie N.

Alan(OnVacationInOregon)Forbes

You seem

to know more than your heating contractor, i.e open loops systems are a no-no; concerns about Legionellosis:

http://www.gsbs.utmb.edu/microbook/ch040.htm

Brad White_9

Closed loop all the way.

Introducing oxygen alone is reason... but an open system is not practical to treat chemically and Legionella bacteria think it is a Club Med Hedonist Dating Bar...

Closed systems are the ONLY way to go. There is no up-side to an open system.

[Deleted User]

The ONLY reason people go with open systems.

is because they can use a CHEAP heat source that LOOKS like a boiler.

I am currently working on 3 different cases, all installed by the same "contractor", all 3 open systems, and all 3 with people who have had or experienced symptoms of Legionella Pneumophila, one of them clinically confirmed.

Not enough to convince you and all the other contractors out there performing this travesty to NOT do it this way?

OK, one of these places is a retirement village for senior citizens. There are two identical buildings. One with an open system, and the other without. The building that has the open system' has over 75 percent of its residents on oxygen, suffering from one sort of lung ailment or the other with many of them requiring long term hospitalization.

I am afraid to ask about the difference in morbidity rates between the two buildings.

Who was it that said "Show me the bodies!"?

Get ready, because I'm about to "show you the bodies", and it is NOT a pretty sight. You and the code authorities that are allowing this tradgedy to occur.

If you are doing "open systems", you'd best re-evaluate your methodology and/or consider a major career change.

I am tired of seeing people being made sick from these systems, and am about ready to blow the whistle to STOP this redicoulous cycle.

Anon (for now)

[Deleted User]

Holy Crap Batman...

Am I glad I didn't jump on THAT band wagon when I had the chance...

Bodys eh... SOunds pretty serious.

ME

Unknown

Just to reinforce the unanimous decision around here, closed is the only way to go, for a whole lot of reasons beyond just health as well. It's better for the system, much better, and it keeps your options open now and forever should you need water treatment or glycol antifreeze.

hr

I was one of the

folks that asked for factual proof of deaths caused by open systems. Although I didn't do it anomously

I hope evidence becomes available to put some closure to this issue, it's about time. This should not be a power struggle issue if in fact the proof is clear, consise, and able to be documanted.

Regardless, I too would endorse closed loop only installs.

The next study should be health and fatalities caused by ugly FA ducted systems. I've seen mushrooms and dead rodents inside those systems:)

hot rod

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Brad White_9

Open Water Systems- Proof of Deaths

The ancient Romans used open systems and not one is alive today. So there.

Joe Mattiello

Taco, X-pump block

I’m going to put my two cents in. Taco, offers a great product for your application, the X-pump, which has two system pumps, a heat exchanger, and a variable speed mixing control, which gives you the versatility to operate your system more effectively, and efficient. The greatest attribute is the heat exchanger isolating the open system, from the closed system eliminating the need for all non ferrous components in the system, and most importantly the Legion Ella bacteria concern. Outdoor reset controls the water temperature on the radiant side, giving you the maximum comfort level. For your reference I attached the catalog data on the Taco, X-pump.

hr

I'd like to see the X Block

offered without the tekmar control, also. I see a number of applications (solar for one) where that clever package could be used. Seems an non control, X Block, option may open more doors for you?

hot rod

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Unknown

my other concerns

After reading all the posts, they are all correct... My other concern is if your heating contrcator thinking about open system, how's is he doing with the heat loss and tubings applactations(sp) ?

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_1

Anon

I'd very much appreciate a private chat via e-mail or contact me & I'll give you my cell #. This "show me the bodies" nonsense is idiocy at its best (or worst!).

The facts surrounding bacterial amplification and what constitutes an amplifier are crystal clear. The facts that Legionella Sero Group #1 is the main strain that causes LD is well established. The needs for rampant amplification are defined, established and have been proven.

That an open system will be an ideal amplifier can not be disputed. Every single condition for ideal amplification conditions exists in an open system. "Exercising" an open system is pure folly where keeping the system free of Legionella is concerned.

That domestic potable water systems - both municipal and private - are the delivery agent for the bugs has been historically proven.

Chlorine is not the least bit effective against Legionella at 2 to 4 PPM and dissipates as water is heated.

Hot water superheated flushes do not offer anything but a temporary drop in bacterial culture numbers.

Stagnation is but one of several ideal conditions. The bugs can do quite well in a moving body of water too. Exercise smeckercise!

I, for one, have no need or desire to see the bodies. The evidence supporting the notion that an open system holds the potential to kill is too overwhelming to ignore.





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George_10

That is FUNNY Brad

Nice Friday smile.

Plumdog_2

yer freakin' me out man

I'm gonna go pour bleach in my well right now and turn the heat all the way up

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_1

bleach

won't help(G). Also not friendly where plastic tubing and longevity are concerned. It'll knock out the coliform bacteria though. Well water systems should be checked at least 2x per year and more frequently if surrounded by farmland crops where manure and chemicals are spread.

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