More CO

Unknown

I was called to an incident scene several years ago by a contractor who had two of his employees overcome with CO while working on a remodeling job. The local "experts" had determined there was a CO leak somewhere but could not locate it. Solution open all the windows while working in the building.(As you will see this would have made it worse). This contractor had heard me speak at a building association show and called me.

After many hours of investigation and asking everyone in the area questions this is what I found. In adjacent section of this building complex some demolition was being done and six vehicles being used had propane fuel. They had been removed by the time the "experts" arrived. Two days later on a Monday work resumed and all of those vehicles were back on site. Within minutes of starting them up and with the ventilation system running we had 200 PPM and climbing in that same adjacent building. The ventilation system from the building next door was blowing CO into the next door building which had the CO incident (open windows just made it worse).

Experts must learn to be detectives and it was my unwillingness to quit looking that had me on that job site the following Monday morning. You must as much as possible try to simulate working conditions or living conditions as close to the incident situation, other wise you will miss it. If something is making CO it just doesn't all of a sudden stop. Rudy you are sure right on when you say CO does not leak it is created.

Heating guys often miss gas ovens causing CO because that is not part of there protocol for testing. You have to test everything!!! Over on Oil Tech Talk in my area there I have a gas oven test procedure.

By the way testing on those six pieces of equipment showed extremely high levels of CO being produced by all six. Forklifts and other propane type vehicles need constant mechanical attention and testing as they are known CO polluters.

Maine Ken

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13860359/

Empire_2

I just have one problem...

Why hasn't the source been found? and who was looking for it? That is quite a poisoning and cannot be to hard to find. I'm wondering if there was some kind of lower level garage or drive thru or something along thoes lines. I think every time this happens, it's like WHAT????????????? How????????. The only reason I say that is in the article it Say's the source hasn't been found by,...I think Noon..??? FIND IT!!! Brings to mind Dorm Laundry rooms, etc.. I would think the un-thinkable.

I am not trying to be disrespectful of cocky, just tired of this scenario happening and no timely results to offer as a follow up to the public.


Mike T.

Rudy

I totally agree with you Mike

To poison that many folks and kill one person, the source of the 'leak' has to be painfully obvious......

Even the term "leak" shows how little those involved in the investigation know. CO doesn't leak out, it gets blown out or sucked out.... and has to be produced in massive quantities to result in this kind of tragedy.

Every couple of years I do training with my local fire departments and the code enforcement office. If anyone wants to do the same, get in touch and I'll send you a copy of the presentation.

Empire_2

Rudy...

Thanks and send it to me or let me know what needs to be done to learn more. I am alway's looking for more training.;-)

Mike T.

don_182

I was

on one this morning.Customer calls me and said she has had the fire department out and they did not get a hit with their meter.And that she was told to get another co detector.She said I have purchase three detector and that
each one keeps going off.

I arrive this morning and with my detector head to the garage and as soon as I enter the ppm start going up on the meter.
I let it set and while I'm looking around I can see the heater is showing sign of back drafting from the brown stain on the heater.

I reach down and could feel the heat just pouring out of the
heater.So I had the customer open up the door to the garage and she begin to start drafting properly.

Then I walk around to back yard to see where the stack pipe come out of the roof and how far above roof peak it goes.

I find that it terimate out of the room over the garage and
right next to the roof for the second floor.It also is under
three attic vents as well.

So I asked the customer how often do you have to light the pilot.His statement was when the wind comes from the ne often and sometimes a couple times aday.Which explain the thermocouples pile next to the heater.

Anyway I check the pressure at the manifold and clocked the meter on the waterheater.
I'll will be returning on monday to raise the stack pipe above the attic vents and get it above the other roof.And will be adding some combustion airvents in the garage.

After doing the math from my manual on air for combustion
by Gas Appliance Service.I find that the garage is a confined space.Thank You Timmie.

Unknown

Good work Don

I am glad my manual was helpful. Keep up the good work and we can save some lives. Most Fire Departments do not understand combustion and to tell the truth it is not their job to understand our equipment.

If we put good detectors in the hands of our customers and educate them to call us when they have a detector go off we could save lives.

Education of trades people is a must and everyone should be testing equipment!!!