Go to Home Depot?

Josh_10

An old carpenter once told me that LOWES is an acronym for Less Of What Eagle Sold. I thought that was pretty funny.

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Josh_10

I recently noticed copper tube prices were lower than my discounted wholesaler price while shoping for paint with my wife. Completely disgusted I quickly wrote down the brand name assuming that it was a lower quality tube. (I have never paid attention to copper brands)

The next day I went to the wholesale house grabbed a doughnut and asked for 500' of 3/4 type M. While loading up my truck I glanced at the brand name and to my surprise it was the same brand as Home Depot had stocked on their shelves.

I walked up to the counter and asked my long time friend what was going on. He explained that it was cheaper to buy copper from Home Depot than the manufacturer. I said "are you telling me you buy copper tubing from Home Depot, mark it up and sell it to me?" The answer was yes. He then told me to buy my copper from Home Depot.

I thought surely this was an isolated incident but my good friend who runs an electical contracting business told me that he went through the same song and dance. What is going on? How are we supposed to turn a profit when the HO can buy copper cheaper than we can?

To me this has nothing to do with using copper or pex but more an issue of Home Depot having so much buying power that they can out buy our wholesale chains. I think the manufacturers are biting the hand that feeds here.

Unknown

this been

Josh, this been going on for years....

Paul Fredricks_3

I'll give you an idea of their buying power. I know a guy that invented a pencil sharpener for square pencils, not the one that HD sells, but a different style that works much better. I asked him if he would be selling them at HD.

He said it takes a year just to get them on the shelves. Home Depot dictates everything from display to production quotas. They even dictate the price, which is why he didn't follow through with them. If you do make it through the presale process and get them on the shelves, HD takes 6 months to pay. 180 day terms. Imagine if your customers took 6 months to pay (I know, some of them do)

MOOSE

I buy a lot of copper at HD due to their price. I usually don't have to wait in line, and get treated better than I do at some of the supply houses.

Dave Yates (PAH)

That's why we buy

Bradford White water heaters.

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Joe Brix

I wouldn't be suprised

if HD made their copper tubing bulk order last year at a fixed price with distribution through out the year. What does your wholesaler order: 100K ft a year compared to their garanteed order of 100 million ft/yr.

Josh_10

I second that Dave.

SVDW

I'm wondering what HD's pricing would be if they factored in jobsite delivery/Pick up & the overhead that entails. They also don't have to stock sizes up to 6" nor the fittings to go with it. As a supply house we can't afford to buy a couple million in copper & sit on it for a year hoping the market doesn't drop. We have to cope with market changes just like the contractor & we can't dictate selling prices to the mills.

Josh_10

I understand your frustraion SPV. I am with you. I think it is the mills who are responsible here. I just can't beleive that it is cheaper for you guys to buy it from Home Depot after their mark-up than it is to buy from the mill.

Bob Sweet

That seems a little strange

the wholesalers we deal with are quite a bit less expensive than HD prices.

SVDW

I agree. Any time we were forced to buy copper from HD to cover an order we took a loss on it. It also occurred to me that if the mills are committed to a price to HD they need to make that up if raw materials go up. That means everybody else will get the price increase to cover the extra cost. Just thinking out loud here.

Dave Yates (PAH)

it's about service and knowledge

Your local supply house waits on you and loads your trucks - big box retailers sit back while their customers self-serve and load their own materials - there's some overhead reduction to contemplate!

Your local supply house has employees with, in most cases, a great deal of product knowledge - big box retailers have no one of that caliber - a huge offset in overhead costs.

Your local suppliers have outside salespeople who drive to your location, help do material take-offs, HVAC calcs, train you and your employees regarding new or existing products - big box retailers do not - another huge offset in overhead.

Your local wholesalers have inside sales people who take orders, meet with your customers to sell fixtures out of showrooms and then deliver the goods anywhere you'd like while protecting your profit margins - does the big box retailer offer this level of service?

It's worth it to me to support my local wholesalers - even if the big box outfits offer better pricing on items.

As Kojak would have said: Who loves ya baby?

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Brad White_9

it's about service and knowledge--So True

I have to chime in with an HD story:

A few years ago, I was at the House of Orange Aprons, Sunday AM to get some 1.25 inch Type L copper. I was making a primary header for some P/S piping in my house.

Yes, I do not like pressure drop

I ask the "friendly and knowlegeable sales associate" where the copper was in that size and wall thickness. Was it in the back stock room?

Before I could ask that much, he bellows (all five foot two of him), "what are you heating, the f-ing Taj Mahal? Ya don't NEED copper that size!" (He used the full Anglo-Saxonsism by the way. Class act he.)


I assured him that I knew what I was doing, and where, please just tell me where was the piping?

Again, he goes off knowing nothing about my needs, nor caring. Not knowing my heat load, pump capacity or delta-T he starts raving about me not knowing what I was talking about....

I started to explain the joys of P/S piping when I realized I was preaching to, well, let me be kind -an idiot.

Then he adds this: I am a "facilities engineer"....

Whereupon all I could say was, "It is 8 AM on a Sunday morning. You call yourself a "facilities engineer". You are working in HD?" Hated to say that.

I still see him around the aisles giving horrid advice. He seems to leave me alone now. I like that.

Sorry to vent; had to get it out

Dave Yates (PAH)

radiant disuaders too

While crusing the aisles one Sat morn, I spied some electric radiant floor product with a nice display that was heating some tile. Nice-n-warm to the touch. Playing consumer, I asked about the product to not one, but three "sales" folks who were enjoying a bit of conversation and didn't like my interruption. "That stuff? You don't want that junk, it's too expensive, too hard to install and will likely fail." I had a hard time suppressing my smile.



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Don Robertson

Thanks

Well said Mr Yates and thank you for saying it.

Dave Yates (PAH)

I should have added....

When contractors have a product problem, the local supply house typically will dispatch their employees - at no charge - to help resolve the issues - even when it's a flubbed install. Same goes for manufacturers who knock themselves out to help installers who purchase through wholesalers - even giving away equipment at times - even when it's an installer error! I've seen this happen far more often than I'd tolerate if I were the mfg.

Big box guys? NFW.

There's hidden gold in good relationships with wholesalers who provide excellent service. An intangible, but very real, asset that's often overlooked for a penny, nickle or dime.

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Josh_10

I for one am going to boycott Home Depot at any cost. I will also not use any supplier that buys copper from HD and turns a profit and sells it to me. Not because I am pugnacious but because I have principles. I really appreciate the service at the supply house and also the fact that I have been looking at the same faces for many years.

singh

A little extra

you get when you go to HD.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/14/home.depot.drugs/index.html

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Josh_10

I can think of a plumber or two who definatly would have kept the cache. Wonder how many didn't turn in the drugs?

Bob Forand

Dave Yates

Well written...Kudos.... There is a lot to be said about a good supplier and you hit it. Thanks.

Unknown

How is the quality of the pipe ?

We got another shipment of oversized pipe ......... again from our supply house .

1/2 type L , 3/4 type M , 1 inch type M - all have to be fought into each and every fitting .

I wonder if Home Depot's pipe quality is any better .....

Dave Yates (PAH)

no doubt

I've missed many salient points. One of them was the long-term friendships that develop quite naturally. I prefer buying from folks I like(G). Friends also treat friends as friends. On the business side of that equation, I need them to turn a nice profit too so that we can all survive and thrive.

That's not to say we ignore price points. Like anyone in this business, we continually check on specific items. Today's large commercial water heater sale was no exception. We had stiff competition at the contractor level, so we asked for everyone's best shot - before they quoted the product. I've never played the price-game by pitting suppliers against each other after getting a price - it's a one-shot deal for both of us. From there, we give the sale our best shot. We weren't the lowest bid, but we got the job. Price ain't everything! Our competitors made a few mistakes in their sales pitch that created a shadow-of-a-doubt & our client inadvertantly revealed what they wanted to hear. It's all in the art of listening actively, emphatically and observing body language. Two eyes, two ears & one mouth - used properly, they work quite well(G).

Teamwork works.

But then, I am from the state where you get fined for not wearing a seat belt in a moving vehicle, but don't need a helmet if you're riding on or driving a motorcycle! Go figure.

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Albert Huntermark

Sales \"Expertise\"

Another Sunday quick repair job, I needed one 4" PVC clean-out/test tee & plug. I looked high and low on the shelves to no avail. I had to interrupt the probably 18-year old plumbing salesman while he flirted with the “hot” paint sales woman from to aisle over. First he was annoyed with me for asking if they had any 4" clean-out tees. Hey, I’m, sympathetic; I mean I’ve bought paint there from her before!!! And I’m in my late 40’s! Anyway, on that day, I was in a get it done work mood and wanted to get moving. The “seasoned veteran” plumbing salesperson, in a condescending manner (because of his co-worker there,) said he never heard of a clean-out tee and that they didn’t make any such fitting. He then got a sanitary PVC tee and a hub adapter and explained to me as though talking to a child that this is what the all the plumbers use. He even explained the concept of cutting a close piece and gluing it together. He did know you had to use purple primer too! He also used some fancy salesmanship explaining that the curve on the sanitary tee was there so an eel will go down the drain better. His co-worker then left. I explained to him that I was a plumber, and they did make the clean-out tee. I further proved it to him when I got a 3” clean-out tee from one of there shelves! He apologized! I explained that the adapter would take up too much space and would look sloppy. Wanting to be helpful he then got an ABS spigot adaptor, as they were out of PVC ones. He said that this would take up less space and that it was okay to co-mingle ABS & PVC ! I explained how that was a no-no! He never heard that of that either! It makes you wonder. Anyway, I settled on putting in a spool piece and got a clean-out tee from my supplier on Monday! I hate to think of what other "expert" advice they give.

Josh_10

Ever have people prey on you because you are a professional? It's like they can smell it on you. Every time I go into a Home Depot or Lowes on a weeken I get HO's asking questions. How do they know I am a tradesman? And why can't the sales people sense this?

Unknown

One of many

One of many stories and about home depot... This store was close by and all I needed was a 3" st pvc 45 el to get this job done.... Looking,looking for it and finally a "seasoned" saleman stopped and asked what I needed, and he looked, looke.. He resorted to the famous Home Depot answer, (no matter where I go, in Il, Tx,NY, MN,MI, etc) " If you don't see it, they don't make it!" More stories later..

Brad White_9

The reason is.....

You are the one who looks like you know what you are doing, are not looking up, down and all around. You have a look of focus and go right to where you need to go. (And when you get there one hopes you find what you need!)

But yes, like dogs smell fear, people smell competence.

Supply House Rick

HEY!!!

Has anyone seen my "Special Order" Cabinets I ordered from Home Depot?

Rick PE

Brad White_9

Or the famous look you get

when you hand your HD charge card to the checkout person (who does not avail themselves of the HD dental plan apparently)...

You get this blank look then a grunt and nod toward the card reader and signature plate. They do not slide your card anymore.

My response? "You could do it- I can help!"

BEW

Plumdog_2

That's something ya won't get at the supply house

say you get 48 coduit clamps or something-all identical. The gal your talking about begins to scan each and every one individually, then one of them won't scan; "can I get a price check on aisle 9?"

Brad White_9

I bet

Weezbo is a-wondering about now.

Brad White_9

Plumdog-

You shop at my HD?? That girl gets around.

Forget critical thinking skills; I am concerned about their autonomous nervous systems...

Unknown

Rick...

Rick, I checked the HD's order log, ur cabinets are being made into radiators at Hot Rod's shop....

Unknown

aaarr

Plumdog_2

concerned about MY OWN

had to look it up; right above autopsy in dictionary-what a coincidence.

Shaun Anderson

Big-box stores

When the last time the big-box stores sent you to a factory training class on a new product, informed you on a new product that will save you time & money and actually had the parts you were looking for ? Is service & product knowledge really worth giving up to save on price ?


Shaun

J.C.A._3

Now....

That was FUNNY!!! Chris

jim lockard

Dave

Talk about confused If a little kid rides in you car they must have a seat belt. But when kids ride the school bus their are no seat belts. Whats up with that. Best Wishes J.Lockard

Dave Yates (PAH)

that's

poli-tics

But then, those are the same guys & gals who snuck a big fat pay raise past their constituents in a midnight rush & created a stink that's not dead yet. Big push to vote out the idiots who pushed that through & then the ones who refused to vote for its repeal.

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ed wallace

HD

Last year I was doing a steam boiler I needed a 2 in union to finish the job on a saterday went to HD saw plenty of 2 in pipes and nipples asked sales person for a 2 in union he looked in overstock came down the ladder said no 2 in fittings we dont carry them just the pipes and nipples he tried selling me a 2 in pvc union after all how hot van steam be says he

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Plumdog_2

I asked that question

of the District Safety Officer when I worked at the BIG school district. He told me the kids would cut off the seatbelts with their switchblade knife and beat each other to death; so that's the reason they don't have 'em.