which of these circs is quietest?

CC.Rob_4

Need a quiet, low-vibration circulator for a specific application. Of these three (listed alphabetically), I would appreciate opinions on which has lowest noise and vibration.

B&G NRF-22

Grundfos 15-42FR

Taco 007

Thanks.

Unknown

Quiet Circ?

unless there is a prob with the piping causing a velocity issue,,,how do you hear anything from any of them anyway?

Dave

Unknown

maybe better for you

Maybe better for you to have a quiet gravity heat system.... I agreeed with Dave.. Its the pipings that causes most of the problems... Granted, pumps do wear out and make noises but, nothing like the old pump coupler type pumps...

Larry C_6

How did you select these pumps?

Did you pick these pumps because they are available or did you match the pressure, specific gravity, and flow requirements to the pump curves?

CC.Rob_4

matched

Matched to application. B&G, Grundfos obviously have similar curves. 007 somewhat different but still in spec. Thanks.

Weezbo

all three of these circs

are good i would think you would have someone rep ing the WILO by now...they too could be a good match.. these small circs aren't like a 20 hp where you can Definitely be assured they are running

take a look at the WILO ..

[Deleted User]

wilo

go with wilo they are the quietest circs that i have found and have matching curves to all of the other you specify. They are not an ifc pump so you will need some type of check valve.

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Weezbo

Seen a nice little 3 speed today.....

might want to take a Good look at what is available in the Wilo line....

Plumb Bob

If you use a 3-speed pump, you can reduce any pump noise and flow noise by going down to the lowest speed that will do the job of heating the house. You don't need deltaT=20 to heat the house, you can go to higher deltaT (lower flow rate).

kal_2

a few rules...

put 11 smooth fitting free pipe diameters preceding and succeeding the pump, and size the pipe for the flow rates in the chart below and your system will be dam near silent - and never ever have a spring loaded device such as a spring check or a pressure differential, etc, within 11 pipe diameters of the discharge side of a pump, this nixes the grundfos FC pumps as they have the spring check on the outlet and boy do they chatter!!! especially on primary boiler loops that have low head, and high temps and flow rates

Pipe"	GPM	BTU
1/2	1.5	15,000
3/4	4	40,000
1	8	80,000
1.25	14	140,000
1.5	22	220,000
2	45	450,000
2.5	90	900,000
3	140	1,400,00
4	280	2,800,000

pipe table for 4ft per sec, delta-T of 20, 10,000btu per Gal – these pipe sizes may be pushed to 20% more flow, but with a noise penalty, above that, efficiency drops off drastically

try this:
take a little piece of cellophane and put it on the wall – it stays right there, but a little blow, sends it flying, now make it wet and try blowing it, it stays put – now blow really really hard, I does take off but not straight, but rather it flips around, well, water in a pipe, behaves the same way – it’s stationary at the inside surface of the pipe cause it’s sticky, and if you really put a lot of pressure behind it, it takes off and flips around causing a turbulence dam to occur, sure the dam and the water will move along because of the intense pressure, but the pump load has increased exponentially, and boy will you hear it!!! when in doubt use the next pipe size up

Supply House Rick

Does anybody

Have any decibel ratings that compare circulators? This will answer any and all questions and isn't having a factory installed flow check a labor saver? (we sell 3-different circulators, so I'm not singling out any specific brand)

Rick

ScottMP

kal

I use Grundfos FC pumps exclusivly and hav'nt had any complaints of noise. I have them at my own home and the owner ( she thinks she is ) has'nt complained yet ??

Thats an interesting comment.

Scott

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kal_2

i have three on one manifold in a ...

Primary/secondary/injection setup – and the primary pump chatters like crazy, the system one less so, and injection one, is so silent that i need to use that little compass like indicator tool from GFOS to see if it’s really running

ScottMP

Thats been my experience

We ALL carry the little tool.

Scott

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CC.Rob_4

thanks

Useful info. Thanks all.

Steve Ebels_3

None of the above

I'd select a Grundfos 15-58 3 speed model, unless of course one of the above exactly matches the flow requirements of your circuit. The 3 speed selections on the 15-58 allow you to tailor the flow to the needs of the circuit very nicely in most cases. I have to say the nearly all the systems I look at, installed by others, are severely over pumped. When you see temp drops across an entire loop of <5*, you're moving water needlessly and wasting energy running the circ harder than it needs to be. I grant you that some loops or circuits which are under radiated may need all the help you can give them. On the average though, a 20* or higher temp drop will help improve your system efficiency a bunch

CC.Rob_3

yeah

Agree. This is not for a distribution system, however.

Actually, it would be nice if there was another 3-speed with a set of curves like the 15-58's speeds 1 and 2, but a slow speed that was something like 7-8 gpm at 7-8 ft of head.

mark henry_2

sounds like a piping issue. pictures may help. I would use WILO for everything as all the jobs I have installed has never had a complaint other than are you sure its running???

Steve Ebels_3

OK

My own experience, and I've used all three makes, has been that when they're installed in a properly sized application which is air free, none of them make enough noise to distrube even a mouse. They are all quiet.

Mike.C

Missing the question!?

15 postings reguarding this and I think you all missed what he was actually asking.
You asked about vibration. I'm guessing that is your main concern due to a bedroom next room or something. The best advice I can give you is to use rubber isolating clamps all around the motor and parts connected to it. I think all pumps will make some amount of vibration.
Hope this helps


Mike.C

Alan(OnVacationInOregon)Forbes

Thanks for

getting us back on track. I have only had experience with Taco and Grundfos. For whatever the reason, Grundfos are quieter.

ScottMP

Mike , the question was

Noise and Vibration ....

each can be related to a circulator.

Scott

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Dr Pepper

Noise and vibration elimination...

is done by moving the pump elsewhere and/or isolating it with rubber bellows connectors then hang the pump with isolation mounts. Screw the piping down tight on each side of the pump and maintain a low (2-4 f/s) velocity in the system. Get a B&G System Syzer, learn how to use it and size your piping correctly, it will be quiet. Done properly, a 50HP base mounted can still give you a quiet system.

CC.Rob_3

sorry about this

Sorry I wasn't more clear. The circ comparison question was for purposes of soliciting opinions on which of the three circs seem to achieve least noise and vibration. The idea being that installation factors being equal, quiet and minimal vibe is at least in part a reflection of good volute and impeller design, motor specs, shaft tolerances, etc. etc.

This was not a question about how to solve a particular problem. You guys have seen millions more circs than I have. Figured I'd ask. Good set of tips here, though. Thanks.

FWIW, my 3/4" distribution circuits are pumped adequately. Around 3.4 gpm in one zone, and 3.8 in the other. DeltaT is good. Did the calcs longhand using some resources from Taco and Crane Co. Checked my work using Siggy-ware. Great stuff.

Joe Mattiello

Taco pumps are quiet

Are the system dynamics the same to validate the Grundfos being quieter then the Taco? Someone might say I'm being biased but I believe the Taco pump is so quiet you can not hear it run in the majority of the applications. As wallies have mentioned there are variables that could cause some vibration, and or noise to emanate from the pump. Most time it's velocity, aeration, an unpurged line, or because the pump is over sized. It could be the system dynamics changing when zoning with zonevalves, and one pump, so the pump changes where it operates on its curve. It could also be from piping left unsecured, or thermals expansion of the piping when going through an undersized hole in the floor, etc. There are too many reasons to list, but I can assure you the Taco circulator is a quiet running pump. Take the pump out of the system, hold it in your hand, turn the pump on, and then tell me how quiet the pump is.

Boilerpro_5

I have that to be true too, however.....

I have not found any pump today that is nearly as quiet as the old B&G SLC-30. I have a few of these in place and I still have to put my ear in direct contact with the housing to see if it is running, and even then it is difficult to tell. Also, 0 failures. NRF.....Needless Refinement.....

Boilerpro

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kal_2

you are not biased...

as i have a few 0012ifc'a on boiler loops with very little head and it's silent even though the spring check is on the outlet - i guess that the noise developed on spring-loaded outlet devices depend on the head developed too, as the 0012 with it's small diameter but fat impellor doesn’t develop too much head - even your 1400 series is quieter than the B&G PL and Armstrong E-series equivalents - though not as quiet as the gfoss versaflow UP/S series equivalents – nothing like having the rotor in water, i have a 3hp 3phase versaflow on a VFD and after i set the carrier frequency to 20khz it was silent even at top speed – actually even at 10% overspeed – I just love VariableFrequencyDrives – you can do such cool stuff with them – has taco done extensive testing of your pumps across the board with vfd’s? any recommendations, rules, caveats? is taco planning wet rotor pumps in the larger sizes? Or the micro sizes like the laing DC-vario? – taco products are sooo accessible – we would love to see a broader line – and it’s high time for a permanent magnet rotor and drive electronics – a stupid computer fan is like that and are produced by the millions – PM-rotor with electronically commutated stator coils version of the 00 line would cut the wattage in half – and give such starting torque as to make all pump exercisers obsolete – not to mention cutting the whole 00 line down to just three pumps in cast or brass as a speed setting on them would not only be easy but also not be a compromise

hot_rod

low rpm circs

seem to be quieter. Multi speed circs are nice to dial in the proper flow without running off the curve.

Also try not to mount any circ against a stud and sheetrock wall. The noise will transmit throughout the building. If you must, use rubber lined unistrut or fasten the panel with sound deading attachments.

Not sure about the quietest, but I can say the PL series from B&G is the loudest circ money can buy. I'd be leary of installing them in a residential application

hot rod