Need help with Trane EDR ratings

John_102

Thanks for the rapid response. This place is amazing.

The knobs which have any marks say 'Trane'. The sheet metal frames wrapped around the fins are stamped 'Trane'. There are various numbers of tubes conveying steam within the convectors. I can provide that if need be. All use Trane B1 traps (if I recollect), some integral seats, some not. Probably all traps were original until I replaced them a couple of years ago & all were probably good even after about 50 years of service.

The Trane emitters were added to this house around 1950, I think. Definite info is lost to time.

John_102

Gentlemen –

I’ve finally got a bite – on Monday, a guy who seems to know boilers & steam is scheduled to come to survey my old system. I know I need a new boiler (the 40-year-old oversized inefficient beast is beginning to consume water & has long consumed my money). I’d like to have an idea of the total load of my system.

I’ve bought & tried to understand various texts – Lost Art, Every Darn Radiator, etc. I’m trying to determine EDR of various emitters. The standard rads are ok, I reckon (a few minor puzzlements). The Trane convectors are altogether a different kettle of eels. Trane convectors seem difficult to identify. I’ve taken the liberty of attaching 6 photos in hopes that I can get some help.

Here too are approximate dimensions (exterior except for depth): I understand that Trane advises me to use actual measurements, less various increments, but I’m unclear as to whether these are A, FK, SK, or W types. Can anyone clear that up?

Bath1 – 32.5L x 6D x 23.75H

Bath2 – 35L x 6.25D x27.5H

Bdr1 – 48L x 4D x 26.5H

Den1 – 27.5L x 6D x27.5H

Den2 & Den3 – this is one long convector – 91L x 8.25D x 13H

Excuse the state of the house – I’m slowly refinishing floors, stripping paint, etc.

Thanks for your patience.

Peace.

Steamhead (in transit)

Are you sure they're all Trane units?

They don't all look quite the same. Look real close at those knobs that operate the internal dampers. Is there a name on them? I assume you've looked inside them all for maker's info.

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Steamhead (in transit)

They would be

either the A, FK or SK types, and the ratings for the three types are pretty close. You may have to interpolate some of the lengths, but the Trane chart in "E.D.R." is the one to use.

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John_102

Thanks, Steamhead

A tip of the trap to you for your kindness. I wish you (or someone else on the Wall) were in my neighborhood. Perhaps this fellow who I'll meet Monday will join the fraternity as an outcome of this job.

I estimate the EDR (to nearest whole number) as follows:

Bath1 – 32.5L x 6D x 23.75H - 32 EDR

Bath2 – 35L x 6.25D x27.5H - 33 EDR

Bdr1 – 48L x 4D x 26.5H - 32 EDR

Den1 – 27.5L x 6D x27.5H - 23 EDR

Den2 & Den3 – 91L x 8.25D x 13H - 101 EDR

I'm reasonably comfortable with all the guesses except the long convector. A bit of over or under doesn't concern me, but the 101 figure is sobering. Adding the regular rads to the convector guesses takes me to 835 EDR plus pick up. That narrows down my boiler possiblities, me thinks.

Boiler sizing by the width of the door begins to be understandable. (I do think you need to factor in the length of the stairs, the tightness of the turns and the height of the basement ceiling.)

I've currently got a pumped return & a couple of zone valves, plus a weird zone controlled by a thermostat-controlled trap & valve - sort of a field TRV, I guess. Really uneven heat, short cycles & high LPG bills. My hope is to rip out the condensate return & zone system & use TRV's. The dining room/hall/living room is more-or-less one big space (open plan circa 1900), so I'm thinking that area will entirely (or nearly so) be controlled by a single remaining thermostat.

Steamhead (in transit)

If the convectors

are in an addition, why not use two separate boilers- one for the main house, the other for the addition? This would cost more up front, but would let you have that amount of zoning, and if one boiler broke down the other part of the house would still have heat.

835 square feet (which need not be added to- the pickup factor is already built into the Net and Square Feet ratings) is pretty big for a "residential" boiler. The input would be 350,000 BTU per hour or thereabouts. It might have to be knocked down to get thru the door.

Finally, compare the cost per BTU of LP against other available fuels in your area. Usually this means oil. A gallon of propane contains 91,000 BTU, a gallon of #2 oil may have 138,500 to 140,000 depending on whether or not it's low-sulfur. You may be surprised to see how much more expensive LP is per BTU. Factor this into your decision on what fuel you will use.

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John_102

I'm thinkin'

Let me sleep on that one. It might be a great idea (no doubt it is, but I need some visualization time). My immediate reaction is that the addition is too small for a boiler of its own but I'll need to meditate a bit.

John_102

Little Insight After Sleep

Or, I'm Still as Dumb as I Was Yesterday.

Thanks, by the way about clearing up my pickup factor confusion.

Isn't the great disparity between the two (or three) zones a problem? The main part of the house is one zone (or two if I count the little leg to the kitchen), the addition is just 2 rooms and a bath. Rough measurements:

Zone 1: 1785 sq ft space with 499 EDR installed

Zone 2: 461 square feet with 226.4 EDR (including that long Trane convector guesstimate)

Zone 3: (the kitchen) 106 square feet with 42 EDR

I had hoped to include the attic, heated to 50F or so using TRV's. The attic is an uninsulated & unfinished 1325 square feet of space with 68 EDR of disconnected rads (all on the same Zone 1 of pipe). My plan was to insulate completely and finish about half or 2/3's of that space. Perhaps the room would function as the TRV; that is, the heat would just be swallowed up in all that space.

I don't know how valid this is, but the ratio of square footage to EDR seems skewed:

Zone 1: 3.58 (without the attic)

Zone 2: 2.04 (the Tranes)

Zone 3: 2.52 (the weird kitchen leg)

Maybe something will come in my dreams. I'm certainly looking forward to tomorrow's appointment with Mr. Local Steam.

Time to start cooking supper. My lovely wife thinks my steam obsession amusing, but I'm still the cook.

Peace.

Steamhead (in transit)

If

you grouped the kitchen with the addition, it would be within the acceptable range of a small steam boiler- 268 square feet.

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