Adding \"Turbolators\" to firetube boiler...Boilerpro

Constantin

... but be sure to fit the same turbulator in each flue tube to ensure that they all get the same air flow.

When I co-developed the Weatherpro, I played with all the extant turbolators at American to ensure that we got the best combustion/HX possible. It was pretty frightening to see how minor changes in configuration (i.e. one extra tab on the turbulator) could allow combustion to go bad under the right circumstances.

Tuning the boiler to the right O₂, CO₂ settings may become a challenge depending on how many turbulators you have to tune individually.

Boilerpro_5

I have an older steel boiler

with horizontal flues. Here's the specs. Cliff Boiler...Terre Haute Boiler Works Co., Terre Haute, Indiana. Boiler No. F-2413-B, Ser. 10782 Built 1962. It has A GP burnerRG-5-12, No. 892960, Min 400,000, Max 1,000,000 Firing rate 585,000. I was checking over the boiler and cleaning up the accumlated dust and debris out of the burner and then fired her up for a combustion check...very High CO. I pulled the firing rate down from 650,000 to 450,000 (probably a lot closer to the actual load) adjusted the air and got the CO way down with nice tight excess air (18.5%) CO was stable at even lower excess air, but a little extra left for dirt build up. However, I am getting a stack temp of over 600F and an analyzer efficiency of only 77.3%. The boiler has no "Turbolators" in the tubes, so I was wondering if I could add them and if so how much efficiency might I gain. The fire tubes are about 2 7/8 ID. Also, I am going to have GP burner tech check everything out as it does not appear the unit was ever tuned when started up....No holes for combustion samples. Running nearly 45 years without ever being set up....Pretty typical around here, I am starting to find.

Thanks All

Boilerpro

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EBEBRATT-Ed

Turbulators will probably help reduce stack temp but will increase overfire pressure (or reduce overfire draft). Since the burner is capable of 1,000,000 input you probably have enough fan and horsepower.Where do you get turbulators or do you have them made??

I never herd of Cliff boilers. There used to be a FRANK PROX CO that made cast iron boilers in Terre Haute but I think they are long gone

Ken D.

Boiler

I'm sure the baffles would reduce your stack temp as well as increase CO2. At the same time it will reduce your overfire draft. Just be sure the draft is going to be in the safe range.

Boilerpro_5

CO2

is running about 10%, CO 27PPM air free. Also the air door is almost completely shut so there should be enough power to make it go with the turbolators. Draft at outlet was about -.08, on a 90F, high humidity day.

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Steamhead (in transit)

Dave, you can order turbulators from Sid Harvey

there are stores in Chicago, Calumet Park and Lombard.

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Boilerpro_5

I may have some used ones

coming out of another boiler we are replacing...need to check the size. This one was a record breaker....about 6 times the size needed to heat the building with no domestic load. Replacing it with 2 Mod con that are space heating and meeting most of a very heavy domestic load.

Boilerpro

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Christian Egli_2

Smoke, tripping all over itself

I once attended a short conference given by CleaverBrooks. The topics covered included what can be done to old commercial / industrial machines to get them running better than new. To their credit, they didn't just recommend scraping everything in favor of a brand new sale. Quite the contrary, they made it clear it is fully acceptable to improve the old stuff with new controls, new burners, and whatever else.

They talked about the turbulator, and from what I remember paying attention to, they are a benefit and a hassle at the same time. Clean tubes are very important to good heat transfer and once your fire tubes are jammed with the turbulators, usually, they'll never get cleaned again... and that's no good.

In so many words, they've found the old loose laying spiral turbulator of little benefit. However, CleaverBrooks is now selling its new Hoval built line of boilers that have straight aluminum fins permanently rammed into the fire tubes. These serve as surface area mega-extender. Those seem real smart.

To keep them clean, they install them in vertical boilers. So, maybe, they do want us to buy new stuff...

Furnace people jam all kinds of little chunks of sheet metal into their heat exchanger, they also build in some ledges and barriers, but all these are found in the vertical smoke path - just like in a hot water heater, the baffles are necessary.

For horizontal tubes, I kind of agree the difference is not measurable. Here's why. The smoke consisting of a mixture of hot and cold gasses is aways sorting itself out. The hot stuff takes the top. Since our tubes are horizontal, there actually is a ceiling to prevent the hot smoke from making a straight escape. So then, while crowding the ceiling it will rub against the cold walls, cool off and be pushed aside by other smoke coming from the tube's center area now insisting on making its claim on the top position.

Providing you don't have too much draft, I expect the flow of smoke to be full of little eddy currents tumbling all over themselves in a fight the length of the fire tube.

Hot headed stuff.

Jim Davis_3

Brock Turbulators

I would imagine Brock is still in business. Just give them the make and model and they can make turbulators for just about any boiler. Are you sure this is the problem? Could the boiler be scaled up?
The problem with heat transfer on the fire side is caused by Laminar Flow. This is when the hot gases always flow to the middle and the cool gases to the outside in a straight line. Underfiring equipment makes it even worse. Turbulators were specifically designed to break up Laminar Flow and maximize heat tranfer. Underfiring and using turbulators could be self defeating.

Boilerpro_5

I was considerng that

laminar flow can be an issue with underfirng, but the stack temps were high at higher firing rates too. I imagine that laminar flow can be a real problem with the large diameter tubes this little boiler uses. I bet the larger models are more efficient. I may have some used ones to try in this boiler. We'll see. I hope they change it out to a mod con to save $$$$.

Boilerpro

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Jim Davis_3

With your Oxygen(O2) at 3%-3.5% your flue temp should be much lower and lack of scrubbing because of laminar flow certainly can be an issue. Still need to check water side.

[Deleted User]

Tom Byrley's

book has 2 possible Cliff Boilers. Round boiler F0-2713 (7 can look like 4 on old plates) 407 mbh net. Or. SN-2413 312 mbh net. I remember seeing 3" spiral turbulators in many of the old Cliff (Terre Haute) Boilers.

Boilerpro_5

That first one sounds right on

The burner was marked 585 input, so that should give you about 407 net output. So it sounds like they can from the factory with them.....Sounds promising. Can you direct me to the book or send me the info you have.... I'd appreceate it, as might the clients...The Salvation Army.

Thanks,

Boilerpro

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