Life expectancy?

Patrick North

Yup- none within a three hour drive. Oh well.
Patrick

Patrick North

When to start over?

In my hunt for knowledgable local contractors I'm finding that it may be nigh on impossible for me to find someone willing and able to help optimize the performance of our one pipe steam system.
Now, as I've posted before, our home is a big ol' awkward and pricey to heat 3500 sqft Victorian- there's strike one. Add that our basement houses two less than efficient AS boilers, circa 1965 nearing the home stretch, and you've got strike number two. Finally, the system itself hasn't been all that well cared for- main vents covered in rust, the works.
While I gather that it's rarely cost effective to switch from steam to hw (radiator Frankenstein-jobs included)I wonder if this might not end up being one of those cases, even with a complete do over- I'm not assuming any of the existing piping could be repurposed. Those high efficiency ratings on hw heaters (I know, I know- you're results may vary) sure are tempting. And the possibility of adding solar pre-heating down the line sounds promising, given the advances in this technology.
I can't get a straight answer here- when is it time to throw in the towel with steam?
Thanks,
Patrick

Gene_3

never

Get the vents replaced, make sure ALL PIPES ARE INSULATED, make sure your pressure is low, 1-2 PSI, you do not need to run the burner all the time while the tstat is calling, once a head of steam is up you're done, consider changing the boilers to hi eff Weil McLains one at a time, which ever looks worse or is used more to minimize the shock to your wallet.

To convert would be astronomical $$$$$$$$$$$$ anmd I doubt you would get a pay back.

Josh_10

Patrick have you tried the "find a professional" search option on this site? There are tons of steam guys listed all over the country..

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Brad White_93

When to bag it....

Firstly and formost, tighten up the envelope, insulate, seal, change out windows, all the good things. Just plain do it. That is where it all starts.

If such has been done (I will assume so): Boiler and vents shot? No brainer. The radiators? Probably the most durable things on earth so let's stipulate that.

What is left is piping. Condensate piping- most at risk but is it accessible? Steam supply piping is an open question. Seems you already resigned to not "repurposing" (A verb we did not need )


So, having eliminated all but the radiators... what is your question again (he asked Socratically)?

Patrick North

Hey- as a former English teacher, I reserve the right to "verb" nouns, noun verbs, and etc., ad infinitum. Ahem. (This forum is great!) Yes, our summer project (well, one of them) is tightening the beejeezus out of the ol' gal. Other than that, I'm not sure I follow (though I also employed the Socratic method in the classroom...) the line of questioning. This is one pipe steam, and I can follow the line pretty easily throughout the house. Not that I'd want to go through ripping it out, but it seems it could be much worse (I say this having just ripped out floor boards defiled by the previous owners' cat.). The majority of the radiators seem relatively new in that they are connected at the top and bottom as in hot water rads, so you're right- they're in pretty great shape.
Patrick

Steamhead (in transit)

Pat

where are you located?

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D107

I bet some steam pros will travel the three hours

a homeowner here. I think what you call 'two strikes' is not true. Boiler replacement may be necessary, but you'll have to do that anyhow with any other system you might install. The size of your house I'd guess would pose no problem at all for a new boiler. In the city we heated two old, uninsulated apt. buildings with a ten-year old boiler the size of a jumbo refrigerator once we vented, balanced and lowered pressure. Only once did we have to replace a radiator probably due to some sediment builup at the inlet that could have been repaired by a good steam man.

If you can get some blown in cellulose into the walls of your house you will almost overnight significantly reduce your heat loss.

Good luck; I think you will soon hear from the wall's steam brigade.

David

Brad White_93

Socrates, Demosthenes, Pericles, Testic....

EDIT re: Top and bottom connections: Push nipple connections- of course! I was thinking pipe connections.... :O)

I am with you on insulating "the beejeezus" out of the house. Good for you!

That said, if the piping is in good shape you may reconsider keeping it.

But if as you said it is shot (however you define that) and will not re-purpose it (look what you are doing to me here... ), then you are at Ground Zero IMHO.

So, that is what I was Socratically referring to: You had eliminated all of the variables which would preclude restoring the steam system leaving (gasp! Not hot air...) but a hydronic system as the remaining choice...

While I favor hydronics and the use of old radiators with new hydronic life, somedays I yearn for a good steam system.

Steamhead (in transit)

Brad, I believe Pat means

the radiators are assembled with push-nipples at the top as well as the bottom. This was common with tubular rads on one-pipe steam which was installed from the mid 1920s right up to WW2. I've seen some that had small-tube (rather than large-tube) rads as original equipment. Even some older systems using column radiation had "water-type" rads having top push nipples.

Pat, if you haven't read this yet, you really should:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=22

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Brad White_93

Duh-

Figured it would be simple... there I was thinking one pipe... dang pipe term... knew you would know- thanks for setting me straight!

Mad Dog_2

Not sure where you are located Pat..............................

But I know Steamhead has traveled further and I have traveled 5 hours for a consult. Have you no Find A Professionals anywhere nearby? Have you ASKED anyone to take a ride out? Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2

Its NEVER the time to throw in the towel with steam.............

unless you have buckets of money and you are ready for quadruple bypass surgery to your home. If the home is gutted...ok. Converting to HW WILL cost you 5-6 times what
even a majot steam overhaul will cost you on a house your size. Mad Dog

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Patrick North

I'm in central PA (Bellefonte, to be exact) a few miles from Penn State University. I had ****-u-med this much of a commute would be out of the question, especially as I'm small potatoes. But you're right- guess it doesn't hurt to ask.
Thanks,
Patrick

Steamhead (in transit)

Pat, I remember you now

e-mail me at allsteamedup@verizon.net and let's see if we can set something up. You're not that far from Baltimore.

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D lux_2

pat if steam head

made me an offer like that, I would ask him to fill out the check and how do you like your steak .