4th of July stumper

Christian Egli_2

Well, it is called - rubbing - alcohol, that should straighten out the side effects.

Unknown

4th of july stumper

Happy 4th to the wallies.. I went to 4th of July party with both neighbors having the pool in their backyard.. Both of them brought a "pool heater" in a bottle... One says its does work while next door say its was waste of 4 bucks for each bottle. I checked and read the ingredient... Dyed 70% ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL which is rubbing alcohol! My question is how do this pint bottle supposly raise the pool tempurature? Any Chemist in u wallies? I know this isn't a heating question, but hey it our day off and part solar heating! Thanks again

Dave Yates (PAH)

well, it is the 4th......

1: turn off all pool equipment

2: remove humans

3: pour flammable liquid onto still waters

4: ignite!

5: once flames die down, test pool temp.

6: repeat as necessary till desired temp is reached

7: do not attempt this unless you are a licensed registered pool ignitor speacialist

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Paul_31

it blocks evaporation

I'll bet the other 30% leaves a film on the surface that cuts evaporation. Lots of btus leave via that route...

Unknown

gee whiz..

geeez whiz Dave, I hope someone else is lighting ur grill today.... Happy 4th!

S Ebels

W A G

Chemical interaction with the chlorine

Eugene Silberstein 3

Alcohol and Chlorine

When the acolohol reacts with the pool shock, which contains chlorine, one of the byproducts is heat. In addition, a large amount of vapor is produced as is evidenced by these two youngsters who decided to mix pool shock and rubbing alcohol in a bottle, which was then closed and shaken up.

http://www.geocities.com/mrjeffy321/bottlebomb.zip

John R. Hall

Funny

The only portable pool heaters I'm aware of are a bunch of drunk guys on the 4th of July who'd rather not get out of the pool to remove the rented beer. Have a good one!

Eugene Silberstein 3

Gross John, Very Gross...

But all too familiar!

Unknown

tooooo much

Thanks Gene for the informations, my head nearly exploxed by reading so much about the two chemicals mixed together.. To others about the beers, I'm forgetting it.. Thanks to all

ScottMP

I agree

It leaves a layer over the surface of the water that stops evaporation.

Sounds kinda gross to have in your pool.

Scott

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ScottMP

I agree

It leaves a layer over the surface of the water that stops evaporation.

Sounds kinda gross to have in your pool.

Scott

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Brad White_9

I would think the opposite

Isopropyl alcohol is more volatile than water. Vapor pressure above it would be low so would evaporate faster (why it cools the skin so effectively compared to water), allowing the water evaporation to get back to business.

Nah, I just use napalm...

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_1

same thoughts here

sounded like a way to cool the pool via evaporative cooling.

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ScottMP

I should have read it better or maybe

he's not reading the ingredients completly. There are products on the market that due leave a layer on the pool to help keep the pool warm and some claim, help with solar gain.

Scott

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ScottMP

Man

I have trouble with double posting

Scott

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

Yikes! Yet another "bomb" for the frat boys in the neighborhood to make. Found an unexploded "dry ice bomb" while picking up trash on the street. Opened it to drain the liquid. Did think the bottle felt awfully hard Scared the crap out of me when it litterally threw my hand against a tree right next to me with the cap sailing across the street...

Jed_2

Gee

That's a remarkable revelation of your associations. No wonder you are always fishng and surfing for story leads. You're mired with the drunken pissers .

S Ebels

Eugene

My W.A.G. was right?

I wonder what happened to the kids?

Christian Egli_2

Bikini Flambe

I've done a little bit of back-of-the-envelope thinking... and all you need to enjoy your warm bath is a straw because with all the alcohol you'd need to add, it occurs to me, you've just mixed yourself one heck of a cocktail. Can you sprinkle some salt all around the edge?

I buy Eugene's (like Steve's) argument.

Chlorine we put in our pools serves to oxidize dirt, bugs, and foreign stuff just like chlorine bleach does to our laundry. Spill some bleach on the steel lid of your automatic washing machine and, to your dismay, the once shiny lid will oxidize itself into a pile of rust.

Oxidation is also the process that happens when we set our burner flame on fire. The fuel is burned and heat is generated. Burn a gallon of oil and get a load of BTUs; burn the steel lid and get a big load of heat (for real, magnesium burns even more eagerly); burn a bottle of pool heat and expect to get about 11000 BTU per pound of alcohol.

Whether you oxidize things in a big flash or rather in an invisible smolder changes nothing to the heat release.

I don't know whether the chlorine in the water gives off or takes in some heat when it releases the oxygen needed for the combustion, so I'll just assume pouring the alcohol in the chlorine laden pool is heat-wise equivalent to setting the brandy on fire like you would do a flambe in a frying pan. The scales should be correct at least. Your ingredients list 70% alcohol (30% water most likely) so this derates the effect a bit.

Water takes one BTU per pound and per degree to warm up, 1 BTU / (lb degF) or inversely you raise one pound by one degree per BTU, 1 (lb degF) / BTU. I'm looking at an inflatable pool, 4x8 feet, filled a bit more than a foot deep to an impressive amount of 2200 pounds of chlorinated water. Next, I drizzle a pound of heat (that's about one large beer can volume-wise). Then I observe whatever exciting rise I get.

1 [(lb degF) / BTU] / 2200 lb * 11000 BTU = 5 degF rise

Impressive, isn't it, in this small pool a 12 can pack would yield a 60degF rise. But still, not quite a steamy boil and you've got to make sure your chlorination is not first depleted either.

On the evaporation front

Get out your "laser" thermometer the next time you're out at lunch. Impress your company by proposing to measure the temperature of the glass of water in front of you. Point to the side of the glass and measure, then point from the top, right into the surface of the liquid, and measure; oooh the temperature is lower. Every leaving molecule of water takes away roughly 1000 BTU per pound. That's a lot, hence, it gets cold.

It's the stuff of wet bulb and dry bulb, like Brad and Dave mentioned, and it is that much more impressive with a glass of straight tequila. This alcohol evaporation would cool your pool (which would happen if it didn't contain enough chlorine to burn it all up first). The cooling effect by evaporation per pound of alcohol is much less than what you get from a same quantity of water. Thus, you'd never expect a cooling of more than 1000 BTU per pound of alcohol poured in.

Benjamin Franklin the miracle maker

Indeed, Franklin had a walking stick fitted with a concealed bottle within its shaft. He would walk over to a pond where a light breeze would be stirring a few waves, then raise his cane to the heaven, do his Moses act, meanwhile spilling ordinary oil from his secret bottle onto the water.

Miraculously, the waves would subside due to a then unknown surface tension force. Oil poured over a pool would reduce evaporation too - who'd want to bathe in the vicinity of the Exxon Valdez? But, like Scott and Paul say, there are products that do just that.

Gosh, this is enough geeky science to make everyone around the pool want to throw you in. Me first. Do these numbers make any sense? Anyways, this thread was a lot of poolside fun.

ElmerFudd

Pool liquid cover

WOW - that thing went off with a real bang. Did anyone get hurt?? I am glad my son did not see it - they even told how to make it.

Anyways here is a product being presented to commercial pool owners.

http://www.heatsaverpro.com/productinfo.asp

EF

Brad White_9

All that and a bag of chips!

Another literary triumph, Mr. Egli.

My second thought of using Isopropyl Alcohol atop a swimming pool is how it might sting one's schmecke as one dives or wades through it. Not to mention the shrinkage factor

Plumdog_2

Go to the pool heater room

and turn the dial up to 90. Forget the alchohol and additives. Gas bills be damned! Your shmecke and the missus will thank you for it later.