Heat transfer plates proper installation

Chris_82

On the phone with Uphonor, the silicone was to improve heat transfer and solve the problem with the pex popping out...nothing to do with expansion. And by the way expansion can't be controlled only allowed for...and if you don't allow for it...that's when the problems start, this whole issue is discussed in the design manual, in depth.

Paul Aguilar

Heat transfer plates proper installation?

Which is the proper way to install heat transfer plates in an above-floor installation? Specifically, is it better to nail down the plates on one side only or both? The application requires sleepers above the subfloor supporting the full width of the the aluminum transfer plates (This is the way the contractor wants to do it, so "warm board" type products are not an option). The contractor is going to nail down a wood floor to these sleepers. I have read to only nail down one side of the plates (but obviously when the finished flooring is nailed down, there is bound to be some nailing on both sides of the plates). Any experienced help would be appreciated.

Paul Pollets

above floor

above floor systems would be better served by using either Uponor QuickTrak or Viega Cliamate Panel. Much easier than trying to use transfer plates.

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Unknown

easier, yes. But a true sandwich will outperform either of those prefabs. So "better served" is relative. Better for the contractor, goes in faster. But then it operates at higher temperatures and it costs more bucks as well.

Unknown

staple one side of the plates. When finish floor is installed, it will allow the plate to conform to the finish flooring before it is firmly stuck in place w/flooring nails.

Use pex-al-pex as well.. not much room to accomodate expansion in sandwiches.

Paul Aguilar

Thank you, makes sense. But what if I silicone in regular PEX (Wirsbo hePex)? Will this calm down the greater expansion of PEX? If I use Kitec (pex-al-pex), don't I still need to silicone it in?

Unknown

use good plates and kitec and you won't need silicone and your expansion will be completely under control.

Unknown

only a year late? heh.

If expansion can't be controlled, then why are there not expansion noise problems in ALL of the prefab panel systems, which do not allow for expansion, most of which have NO spaces for expansion in their turning pieces? How exactly do you "allow for expansion" in quik trak? the silicon keeps the pipe from making noises, which it would otherwise do at least once in awhile. those systems are often running at 120-140 degrees, that's 50 to 70 degrees over ambient. that's 5.5 to 7.7 INCHES of expansion per 100'. say, 1" per 20'. 1" per loop across a living room... where does it go, if you can't control it? Are you really leaving 1/2" air space on your quik trak bends? Last I knew, the grooves weren't that big. Heaven forbid you go longer than 20' on a run! Or.. maybe.. the silicon keeps it from making noise?

in WARM BOARD, the silicon was there for all 3 issues when using regular PEX (which, as far as I know, they don't even recommend anymore). All 3 issues go away with PEX-AL-PEX, it stays in place, it doesn't move much, and it fits better. Of course, that's not even an option for quik trak, and quik trak has no real grooves for tubing contact anyway, so silicon it is.

But you definitely can control expansion. If the tubing can't move, it can't expand. Heavy plates, engineered aluminum panels, and concrete exploit this fact every day.

Fred Schaefer

PEX EXPANSION

The pex will expand. Not in length but in thickness, Actually making a smaller inside diameter.

hot_rod

Just like it is handled in concrete ;-)

if the pex is held tightly around the OD and from end to end, then as Fred alluded to, the pex wall handles any expansion.

Ask Mr Pex for the technical explanation sometime.

I can't imagine in typical infloor applications that the temperature change, and expansion potential is all that great. Especially when OD reset is used and the temperature change is gradual.

But going from 68 ambient to 180f or so to supply HWBB is another story. Expect some expansion movement and related noise if not allowed for.

If the pex is tight in the good transfer plates, like the ThermoFin, then the plate will move. Pop some copper into TF's and watch them arc in reaction to the heat induced expansion, while lying loose on the floor.

If you are using the extruded Thermofins I like to fasten both sides regardless if it is top or bottom up installation. This way I don't count on the hardwood nails to do the holding. , and my customers sleep better.

The thin flashing gauge plates were often fastened on one side only to allow them to move and not "tin can' That tinking noise from thin metal expanding. Sounds like rain in your crawl space.

Silly way to handle noise from a poorly designed transfer plate... leave one side flooping in the breeze.

hot rod