Supply House Design Method

Wayco Wayne_2

If I was half as smart as I used to think I was I'd be in a far better place. I see it in my son, who is starting to realyze there's something going on and he better pay attention if he wants to keep up. Glad to be there to see his awakening. :) . WW

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

From Robert O'Brien, "Reminds me of years ago when they first started artificial hips and knees,the medical salesmen were doing the operations!"

What an interesting comment...

I've never been a heating or plumbing contractor, but I have been a restoration/renovation contractor. Legal and official, but small and as a sideline.

I established my reputation with supply houses by knowing what I needed--I may not be "big" but I know what I need. The worst thing I do is send them to their books to find what I've specified. I do of course respect the opinions of the counter men regarding their experience of "quality" and I will ask for such.

I'm in retail in other forms and know that suppliers do offer "incentives". Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Generally those "incentives" are for something new and expected to be "hot". Sometimes I'm the one who gets burned...

How can supply houses who offer design services disassociate themselves from similar "offers" when it comes to design? Is such in the interest of the FINAL part of the chain--the end user?

Ragu_4

Good thoughts, Mike

There is a fairly distinct "border" between the 2 sides of the counter, and I really don't have an inside track on what goes on behind the counter.

What I have experienced is that when I ask for a materials quote for higher end equipment, the guys try to talk me down into some other (and ALWAYS lower quality) line.

The stuff that they attempt to push on me is stuff that I gave up on years ago and I don't want it. Just as you said Mike, we know what we want when we walk in the door, but we WILL listen to accurate experiential opinions.

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Wayco Wayne_2

I find myself

in the same position a lot. I have learned to call the supply house armed with thorough ordsering information because they make their money selling the most common (and cheapest) materials. Walmart thinking does make money and the supply houses track what they are selling the most of and stock it, not my "specialty" items. It seems to be getting better sometimes, but it's often 2 steps forward. One step back type of progress. An example of my dilema. The local Somerville Plumbing supply started selling propress fittings 6 months ago. Yippee and about time. Last week I went by to purchase some and they were no longer selling them. We didnt sell enough I was told. How can I argue. It's their business. If I'm the only one buying they can't just cater to me. I went to a nearby Fergeson Plumbing supply house. They have what I need but I spend 30 minutes in line because they also sell to homeowners who clog the counter because they don't know what they need and are using the counter people as plumbing consultants. (Sorry for the small rant. ). It's not easy raising the bar of quality in a price driven economy. WW

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Techman

Supply Houses!

Hi All!For 30+ years I've seen so many mechanics say to the counter guy "You tell me what I need". So when the system still doesn't work right the mechanic has someone to blame.
This is a tuff profession to begin with,when I don't know something I will "ask" the counter people for their PROFESSIONAL advice.I find that "most counter people" are professional's in their own right, some are not!It would be a rare counter person who could talk me out of what I know I want,but ,it has happened, and I now have a higher opinion of that person, and the next time I will ask for "Supply House Rick" or "Paul" or "Patty" and have a discussion of what I am looking for. Then make my purchase and go to work!Good Day All!!!!!!

JackEnnisMartin

wholesale engineering services

i havw read the comments regarding advice from the wholesale houses. In my experince { thiry five years| I could get a generally correct answer from the old guys at the counter as most were in the trades before entering the wholesale end. Now -- no --- the counter is populated by kids who use the silly answer I have never seen this before. You are asking for a specfic item and because some twenty five year old grade schoool dropout has not seen it -- well it does not exist does it? We have in our city a wholesale that at one time was the best in the business. It was Westburne and then it was bought out by Wolsley. The service is so poor most of us are going to other places in portest. I went in last week to purchase a gasket set for an ITT pump the guru at the pump counter says to me I have never seen this before. So because this fool in his twenty five years on earth has never seen this so it does not exist. The old guys knew their sruff and I learned a great deal in my younger years from them - I am saddened that the new young mechanics no longer have this source of wisdom and we have to make do with young people who are all ego and no knowledge. It seems the trade is being dragged down by wholesales who are only interested in the bottom line and customer service can go to hell -- what a world we are leaving for our kids. Pride in knowledge and ablity are becoming a forgotten idea!!!
Hug your kids and tell them knowledge is the road to sucess not ego. All the best Jack Ennis Martin

Keith_8

Ego

Good point Jack,
If we all left our ego's at the door we could teach and learn alot more. Don't be to tough on the young guy's. We were once young to . The world has a habit of making you a little wiser and more curious as you get older. Anyway, it seems the older I get the less I know.

Keith

frank_25

> Good point Jack, If we all left our ego's at the

> door we could teach and learn alot more. Don't be

> to tough on the young guy's. We were once young

> to . The world has a habit of making you a

> little wiser and more curious as you get older.

> Anyway, it seems the older I get the less I

> know.

>

> Keith



I started in the P & H business in 1964, and as a youngster, I learned a lot from the old timers behind the counters. They showed me how to order a TEE, a copper adapter, etc. How to write a supply house order. Those days we, Pop and I would measure the heat loss and installed radiation for a customer and brought those measurements to the heating guy in the office for a boiler/rad sizing. I saw how to inventory bundles of pipe by inserting pencils or straws into all the pipe, then remove and count the straws. Point is, the houses I deal with now, have experience behind the counter and in the office, D & W, Blackman to name a couple. But they all need help in the picking dept. for their delivery trucks. So many times the order is not correct on our shop orders. But then as is now the tricky, interesting jobs go to the rep. companies for the design help they offer.

Keith_8

Gods way

Paul Ridell held a seminar for Forman training years ago. his conclusion on why the young male ego is so big is that it's God's way of getting the boy's out of the house. If they didn't have that bravado they would be afraid to leave the nest. Thank God for the male ego it allows you to have the confidence to enter the land of the adults.

Not to mention it gives us the courage to get married

Keith

Supply House Rick

Being in Outside Sales...

I know what equipment my customers use. Anybody that tries to down sell cheaper equipment is crazy not to mention insulting.

Designing systems is part of my job. The majority of my customer base design their own systems and the minority trust me to take care of them. Please do not ask counter guys to design anything, their job is to get you out the door quickly

The key is listening to the customers, they want what they want when they want it. Our job is make sure that happens...

Rick

Tim_33

Mike..

I made my living for 16 years performing mechanical engineering design. The last company I worked for, went under due to financial mismanagement, and I found myself working for a supply house (one of the Wolsely brands). I brought "design" to their organization. Many of my customers were contacts from the other, other side of the industry (the professional design side).

So, ..."How can supply houses who offer design services disassociate themselves from similar "offers" when it comes to design?" ...The only answer is that by simply doing so well. I was in a unique situation in that most if not all of my competitors had shown by their "designs" that they were not equal, regardless of claims. If some unexperienced sales "expert" that spent three days at the Wirbo basic hydronics design school, or the like, costs you money (and they will eventually), you won't go back to them will you? (If you can answer anything but no to that question, please disregard this post.) You develop the reputation of being solid, consistent and good. Someone your customer can count on to help them be profitable. That IS your job in this situation.

I had customers that would do business with (my branch of)Ferguson soley because I was there. They knew me from experience, both with me at the supply house and previously as the design engineer/project manager in (our relatively small) town. Credibity of design is not something that can be pitched or sold. You have it or you don't. It takes time and being good, consistently over that time. I would design anything for my customers, and design it well, and they knew it would work. My outside salesmen would try to trade on that fact, but never really worked that way. Sure, I helped out their/our customers as necessary, but it wasn't the same. You meet a customer at their customer's house after work to troubleshoot a problem, help them solve it quickley and either look good or save face with their customer, and you've made a "sales call" no salesman can ever match.

Tim_33

Support those...

places that still do provide you with that all too forgotten service and expertise gained by years of listening to customers. IF you shop for price only, then don't expect knowledge to come with the Walmart savings. If you sometimes need that knowledge, then be a loyal customer. It is a two-way street. Always has been.

Jed_2

Wow.

This thread has so many sub-categories of the interaction between Contractor/Supply House relationship, where to begin?

First off, I whole heartedly agree with Supply House Rick about not letting counter people "design" anything. People like Rick are, or should be, available at every wholesaler. But Rick knows his customers' preferences and capabilities intimately. The counter guys, generally, are there to get you out as fast as they can, to use Rick's words. They know, or should know, the available products on hand. To ask most counter guys about an obscure part or repair kit/assembly, and expect them to be " a complete encyclpedia" on the spot is asking a whole lot. But, there usually is someone behind the counter people who know more, or where to get your answer.

As far as trying to "downsell" on a boiler, as Ragu suggested, I would never do that. But, I am limited, somewhat, by what I have to offer "competitavely". I can supply a number of brands of boilers and controls, but maybe not the one you are set on. A "stocking distributor" status generally means you buy the product as if you held inventory; one price point level. Whether you actually buy inventory is discretionary. Then there is another price point level, which involves "stock orders", and may or may not allow freight. Then there is the stocking order which qualify's for freight. This is a substantial monetary investment( talking major equipment here). This is where the supply house must do their homework. Is Ragu the only guy buying this stuff, or will we be able to market this high end equipment to 99% of our Customer base? Obviously, the organizational structure of the supply house comes into play. Multi-branch, multi-market, volume supported? Or, a single branch trying to cover as broad a spectrum as possible, within common sense limitations.

No Supply House can be all things to all people. In my area, there are 2 wholesalers who offer availablity of Veissman products. I have no idea what the depth of availability/support is offered or maintained. I don't believe Veissman is for everyone. It's most likely a targeted market thing. That's fine. And Ragu should be able to have access to them, without resistance. The counter people should, but rarely do, know the true extent of the capabilities of their customers.

As far as design, again, it depends on the capabilities of the Contractor relative to the project with which he is faced. Is he asking for a complete design from the wholesaler? Does the Contractor have a good understanding of what his client espects? Is he capable of relaying those expectations to designer? Does the Contractor have enough details of the project to provide the designer with a viable solution? Is the project over the head of the supply house designer? Does the designer (assuming not a M.E.)have access to a higher level of design credentials? Most Wholesale Supply Houses probably do not have M.E.'s or P.E.'s in house. But many have people who have been tracking on this avenue for quite a while, and have learned much, are capable quality designs. A lot does depend on the competency level of the Contractor and his insights into the project at hand.

So, what's a Supply House to do?

Jed

p.s. Jack Ennis Martin: I don't know what your experiences have been, but I have never seen "engineering services" offered by the counter people.