Union vs Non-union

EBEBRATT-Ed

Union-non union Yeah, they both have serious issues. In my area the non union companies just won't pay-- and they are loosing all there good people to the unions.I was non union for 28 years and made the switch 5 years ago.

at my age (not tellin but I have 33 years in plus 2 at school) I will stay union because you can't touch the bennies going non union plus I work for a good company.

I have the highest respect for anyone who wants to start his own business (I did it for 5 years) but in our market we just can't seem to charge enough to make it worthwhile, plus there is a big time shortage of QUALIFIED MECHANICS or qualified anything for that matter so for me the answer is work for someone else and enjoy less headaches, collect bennies and good pay.

That being said there are some union issues I don't like so I guess It's different depending on your location.

The other bottom line (besides money and bennies) is that you gotta like your job to be happy (maybe not every day-but most of them) and if your not happy --move on there are plenty of places to go and thing to try that may be more rewarding.

Ed

Rich W

Very strong opinions on both sides here. I've learned many things reading you guys (and purchasing Dan's books). I thank you all for that. However....

I'm confused. I worked 20 years (union) for a gas utility. At 18, I attacked the job of repairing mains. Most, not all, of my co-workers attacked me and told me to slow down "you're not going anywhere- I have more seniority ". Two years of this then I went to the only open job- meter reading- same story for five years. July of 1986 and four out of over 200 employees at our station encouraged me to take a service job. They said my knack for electronics would be a perfect fit. We had a truly great instructor and lab for hands-on-training. I worked my butt off, ignoring the same old complainers. I was determined my kids would go to college. Before that first winter was over, I was the "go-to guy". All repeat/ intermittent calls ended up with me. I invented a 9 input data logger for catching intermittent problems. Since this could be left behind without union employees watching the lights twinkle- and being paid to watch- they hated it. I made it because it was frustrating when I could not solve a problem that was not there the same time I was. I made a few other things and took many classes they considered threatening. I also did service training. By 1999, I couldn't take it anymore. I believed the story that a smart, hard worker could make more money non-union. I took a few months to decide on a company that promised the moon. Three months after hiring in, the service manager turned into Mr. Hyde (just after I had shown the data logger to the owner). The manager was diabetic, he liked to go for a Coke, Twinkies and Snickers everyday at 10. I don’t think this helped his mood. I had a ton of good customer comments. NEVER late since I was 18. The owner gave me nice bonuses and raises and asked me to stay. Two years of this and I left. Three more left after me. Six months later, I was told the manager was fired. The last four years have been weird. This owner expects everyone to be an expert at everything. He was never in the field except to help his dad set toilets for one summer. A normal day: clean a plugged sewer drain, install a water heater, diagnose rooftop control problem, give estimate and sales pitch for A/C and Furnace. I was told I would be in-charge of the HVAC service dept when I hired in. I was the service dept until my conversion to jack-of-all-trades. The 401K/retirement fund did not exist and my "free insurance" costs me $55 per week. The office consists of his wife and mother. Don't you dare complain about wrong phone/street numbers- THEIR job is very difficult...SO, I THINK BOTH SIDES HAVE ISSUES. In 1987, I made $44K union; I barely made that last year non-union. For all I'm expected to know I think I deserve a lot more. The owner does not promote the business and we have many of "those" customers. Yes, you know the ones who call and complain about the price. He cuts a chunk off the bill and they tell their friends, friends, friends...Sorry Rich, there's no money for a raise...after 6 years of non-union, I’m not impressed with them either. Had I not shot the wad on private, out-of-state college for two kids, I would start my own place.

I am strongly in favor of education...BUT, are there ANY good companies?
I'm 46 and would like to find a place to work HVAC service for the next 20yrs at least. How do you screen the employer???

John R. Hall

Rich

Your last remark speaks volumes. In today's business climate the good workers often have the luxury of doing what you asked -- screening the employers. I recommend doing homework on a potential employer. Check the Better Business Bureau and if you see one of the company trucks around, stop and ask an employee what it is like to work there. Tell 'em you are "asking for a friend."

You can screen an employer -- and should.

KAG

Good companies

Sign here and let the chase begin!

Rich, my advise to you is be your own bose!

I had the same problem as you execpt I was paid very well. Over 90K a year and i have pay stubs to prove it. I may not be as well versed as you seem to be in the tech. stuff, but I found this place and I read every night.

Going out on your own is very scary, but if you are deticated as you say you are you can do it. There are many places you can go to help you start and you probally (This doesn't look right, spell check someone) have many contacts in the trade. Business is business don't take it personnal, when your on your own your previous employers won't help you pay your bills. If they can't afford to pay you then they do not deserve you loyalty.

I left my previous employer for family reasons, mainly my family and my time. I am not making the same now (only 8 months), but I am glad I finally did it. And yes I went after my clients that I brought in and I sleep well at night to.

gerry gill

Rich, i really hope that someday

you open your own place because i bet it would be a top shelf company..i'd also check the managers at the supply houses..they know who the creeps are..also check with the local inspectors..they should have a good insight into which companies are good..i have a supply house contact, and i can assure you that the supply house people know huge amounts about contractors they deal with..hope that helps..

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Rich W

Thanks

Thanks very much guys. It means a lot to me.

Steamhead (in transit)

Rich, I just found this thread

We are about the same age, and you probably know I started a new company with my friend Gordo last fall. I'll agree with the others- go for it. I'm sure glad I did!

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gerry gill

you hit the nail on the head..

you have to be happy at your job...or no amount of money will matter...lets face it..we ply our trade because we like what we do..course if the moneys not there one has to find somewhere else to be happy at..

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Rich W

Money...that's what I want

You guys are on the same page as me. I love what I do. However, if you can't pay the bills it's no fun. My area is the same; people expect you to work all hours at their house and don't want to pay. I can't work 24/7 and I can't find anyone local that wants to try starting a business. I want to do more than pay the bills. I'd like to have extra money to actually go to some of Dan's seminars or take a vacation. In this area, the only option I have to do that is with the union...a friend left our company a year ago- he was 10% behind me in pay- he's 40% ahead of me with far better bennies at the union.This is supposed to be a conservative area...the non-union owners just don't practice what they preach...

Rich W

P.S. to Money...

The $45K I made last year was working until 11PM and all day many Saturdays for straight time. We don't get OT until we have 40hrs. So, like today, I worked 7:30 to 11:30. Now, I'm finished until 4PM, " 'cuz ya gotta give the customer what he wants." So the boss will charge OT for me while I'm getting straight time until 7-8 PM tonight...normal day. I've been anti-union for years because I saw it from the inside. Atleast I could pay my bills when I was union. I worked hard and slept well- the management of the two non-union places I've worked can't say the same.

I can't afford to bounce from place to place at my age. Why can't I give an employer a 5-10page form to sign stating their promises in writing. I have to do that before they will hire me. I'd like to know if they do drugs or drink too much and wizz-away the company profits. I guess I know the answer...

Thanks for your input/listening to me gripe guys.

Mad Dog_2

I agree, but take it slowly

build it up, before you give up a paycheck. You got two kids in College. In the meantime, you have to find a better company to work for....there are some out there. Good luck. Mad Dog

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mp1969

Business is Not for Everyone

I was born and raised in the plumbing and heating industry and I do not think the business route is for everyone. If you live to work then you are better off working for yourself. Be prepared for those same 7am-11pm days though and at least 2-3 of those hours won't be income.

If you work to live then you might want to consider a well respected company that has a solid customer base and a good reputation. Ask fellow tradesmen and counter people at the supply houses (they hear all the scuttle butt and usually can steer you in the right direction)

What area are you from? Are you willing to relocate? Do you have any licenses? Is money your only concern or does the quality of a company and the comaraderie of fellow workers count??

Soul search a little bit before you take our next job, I have been in your shoes and I can honestly say that money was easy to make, I had more problems with the busness ethics and management styles than I did with income.

We are in a skilled worker shortage era and good companies know how to attract, retain and reward good service techs.

Good luck !!!

Rich K.

Josh_10

Don't have much to add to this topic but what I can say is since I left the union I have never been laid off, even for a day and I have always made the same $.

Rich W

mp1969

"What area are you from? Are you willing to relocate? Do you have any licenses? Is money your only concern or does the quality of a company and the comaraderie of fellow workers count?? "

Michigan. Yes. HVAC since 1992. Not my only concern. The guys at our co. have a common bond- complaining about working at 11pm for straight time. They have also expressed intrest in investing in my ideas/inventions. Then I tell them the costs quoted by the patent att. Their hearts sank the way mine did. So, I just keep using them for my customers benefit.

My plan for leaving the union was to start my own place. I could not find a guide book for starting an HVAC co. So, I cleverly thought I would learn from those who do it. Both places I've been are second generation. I've since read that this is when most fail...Our kids have both graduated from college and are on their own(we're still paying for it-both kids have tried many times to take the payments-we keep our promises). They're both south of Michigan. We have been looking for jobs in Ohio, Indiana and Illinois. The long distance search is much worse than the local...

Anyway, thanks for the input.