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Brad White_77
Brad White_77 Member Posts: 10
What I like about the ISO program is that compliance is voluntary. What I do not like about it is that compliance is voluntary :)

Seriously, I see it as a quality control statement which every company should have anyway. There is a process, albeit flexible, to which a company must adhere. Most ISO companies are European at least in origin. I might argue that most European companies and especially German and Swiss companies, probably do an excellent job anyway.

My understanding also is that ISO QA/QC checks were either implemented for the purposes of, (or later used as a means of) assessing European VATs (Value Added Taxes) whereby a product has a tax assessed at certain stages of production, to be passed on to the consumer.

Personally, it does not excite me. Sort of like getting a LEED certification. An attaboy with some costs attached.


  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,490
    When a manufacturer goes for and earns ISO Certification,

    does this mean anything to you?

    Do you care?

    Does it influence your buying decision?

    Does it make you feel differently about that manufacturer?

    I'm just being curious here. Thanks.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Paul Fredricks_3
    Paul Fredricks_3 Member Posts: 1,557

    Personally, I don't care. If I know what it really means. As I understand it, ISO includes safety standards, documentation procedures, quality control, etc.

    When I did commercial work I know there were corporations that only wanted to do work with ISO rated companies.

    I suppose there may be some merit to the statement that ISO rated Co's are more exacting, more demanding as far as quality. I've been told that getting ISO is a real pain and a lot of work for a company. To me that means that if they put in a ton of manpower and resources to get get the ISO, they must have to jack up prices to pay for it.

    I'm sure this is simplistic and I could be way off base.

    In other words, I don't care and I hope I'm right.
  • Robert O'Brien
    Robert O'Brien Member Posts: 3,537
    Who cares?

    It's irrelevant.Everybody knows who makes quality products and who doesn't.I don't need another bureaucracy to tell me.

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  • Bart_5
    Bart_5 Member Posts: 13

    I worked in manufacturing for a short period. The company I worked for earned ISO 9002 certification. I thought the process was pretty impressive. To get and maintain ISO certification the company has to implement and maintain quality control procedures in all aspects of their operation. The company has to go through inspections to show that they adhere to these procedures. ISO certified companies prefer to work with other ISO certified subcontractos, vendors, etc. because those companies adhere to the same level of quality control. I feel it is a good program. If you notice companies post their ISO certification for everyone to see.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,490
    That's why I was asking.

    They do post it for all to see, but I'm wondering what impression, if any, it makes on the people who buy from them.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Bart_5
    Bart_5 Member Posts: 13
    I suppose it depends

    on the level of understanding of the end user. If GM buys bumpers from a subcontractor, I'm sure they require that subcontractor to be ISO certified. When Mr. Smith goes to buy a car from a GM dealer I suppose he may not be aware of the ISO standards. But nun the less he is benefiting from the quality control process maintained by GM and their subcontractors and vendors, in my opinion.
  • Larry (from OSHA)
    Larry (from OSHA) Member Posts: 716

    I think that ISO certification would not mean very much to end users (home owners), with certain exceptions. From what I've seen, I'd have to agree with what BV said. The companies that I visit that have ISO certification are usually more organized and have procedures in place for maintaining quality and assuring it. It seems to me that it improves the quality and tracking of materials from raw stock to finished product. Many OEM's will only deal with ISO certified vendors. I think its just one more way to improve the process, be it ISO, Kanban, Kaizan, 6-Sigma, Lean Manufacturing or whatever flavor of the month you have.

    My .02 worth.
  • rb_6
    rb_6 Member Posts: 222
    Twas the Night Before Audit

    I wrote this a few years back whilst we were going through the process...enjoy.

    Christmas ISO 9001 & ISO14001 Audit

    Adapted from the Night Before Christmas

    Twas the night before ISO audit,
    When all through the brass,
    Not a person was stirring, not even some sass.
    All policies and procedures were neat in a box,
    Everything hidden, even our socks!

    The staffs were nestled all snug in their chairs,
    While visions of questions gave them a scare.
    All in clean suits and freshly pressed slacks,
    We just began hoping we wouldn’t be axed.

    When out in the shop there arose such a clatter,
    We sprang from our desks to see what was the matter.
    Away to the window, as red as a boil,
    There to our horror was a barrel of oil.

    Where did it come from this black gooey flow?
    The environmental person really should know.
    When what to my wondering eyes should appear,
    But an ISO auditor provoking our fear.

    A little old driver, so lively and quick,
    We knew in a moment he could be a XXXXX.
    More rapid than eagle, his findings they came,
    And he whistled and shouted and called them by name.

    Orders, and credits and debits are due,
    All of them perfect you may make it through.
    To the top of the audit! To the top of the Class!
    Boy how theses audits are a pain in the XXX.

    As the black ink dried on the stamped as ‘approved’,
    When met with an obstacle, the mountains are moved.
    So up to the management the auditor flew,
    With a handful of files and check lists to view.

    And then in a twinkling, to hear was quite tough,
    But I think what was said was, ‘the staff were great stuff’.
    As I drew in my hand, and was turning around,
    Procedures and policies we must now be bound.

    The auditor continued searching by foot,
    Looking for errors and all kinds of soot.
    A Pentium computer he had flung onto his back,
    He looked like a mortician, a bit of a hack.

    His eyes – how they twinkled! His grin was quite scary,
    His cheeks were like icicles he was no little fairy.
    His droll little mouth was drawn up like a knife,
    And the pen in his hand could snuff out our life.

    The stump of a PEX pipe he held tight in his grip,
    The fear in our warehouse is we may make a slip.
    He had a scared face and a little round belly,
    That shook when he laughed when he found something smelly.

    He was chubby and plump a right miserable old wiffer,
    And I laughed when I saw him at the size of his sniffer.
    A wink of his eye, and a twist of his head,
    Soon gave me to know we may actually be dead.

    He spoke not a word but went straight to his work,
    And filled all of the forms then turned with a jerk.
    And laying his fingers inside of his nose,
    Giving a nod up to management he rose

    He sprang from his seat, our team gave a sigh,
    I thought for a second, we were all going to cry.
    He exclaimed so profusely, so close and so near,

    You’ve made it this time…but we’ll see you next year!

    Isn't life grand!
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    don't mean squat to me..

    as i don't know what it means anyhow..

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  • Brad White_77
    Brad White_77 Member Posts: 10

    It's So Obsolete!

    Overpriced, Outdated, Ostentatious... any adjective that begins with O. Have a ball...

  • ISO is

    Meaningless. What a waste of money. Scuch is life in the fish bowl. Pay, pay & pay for NOTHING!!!

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  • I thought

    I thought ISO means In Search Of..in personal ads... So what are we looking for?
    To me, doesn't means anything to my installations, there are just as many defective parts coming from gobal points.. We all pay for it....
  • Christian Egli_2
    Christian Egli_2 Member Posts: 812
    9001 9002 9003 9004-1 9004-2 9004-3 9004-4 14000 14001 14004...

    ISO 90XX is not the only stick-on label that exists out there to impress all of us, look at UL, CE, CSA, AGA, it's endless. Ideally, I want to think the best labels I want to search for are the ones that warrant a special merit on the part of a product, like a gold medal, hard to get and just not for sale.

    Reputation also has something to do with it. For instance, the Veuve Clicquot-Ponsardin produces champagne in Reims and supplies it to the Queen of England. Then, in exchange for the good stuff, the Queen grants a royal warrant. I imagine the wild fun it must be for her and Prince Phillip to sample and "test" all those fine bottles of champagne. Interestingly, Coors beer and Coca-Cola also come with the coveted label that says: by appointment to her majesty the queen. Now you know what they drink at Buckingham palace. They have been granting their stamp of approval for nearly a thousand years now.

    I am impressed by labels that make it possible for a manufacturer to expect a higher price for its products all on a voluntary and competitive basis.

    CE and UL listings kind of fall in that category because the forbid market entry of non listed items. They mainly serve to keep the unions and city inspectors happy, so, they mean nothing much about reliability and value. They mean even less when you consider that there is a great deal of imported goods that have all the listings required, just fake ones.

    I know UL says it cracks down on the contraband listings, but in the meanwhile, you're on your own to test whether the product is fit for purpose. The real catastrophe is that this situation makes it harder for above board companies to keep on manufacturing their goods competitively. The solution might be in further global crack down, but I kind of think it more fair to simply remove the code that makes UL listing a requirement. You'd still be able to buy listed goods, they would still carry all their present value, perhaps even more, and there would be no reason to have fake stampings anymore. UL listings are given on a competitive basis, but they are not voluntary.

    No one forces all of us to drink nothing but Veuve Clicquot-Ponsardin champagne, and if it were so, I can assure you this Clicquot stuff would be nothing else but a fizzy alcoholic brew. But, maybe we can deal with guzzling Coors beers at gun point instead. So much for mandatory stuff.

    ISO 9001 is quite different. Indeed it is a quality standard but if you propose to manufacture junk, providing you do so reliably, you'll ace the audit. Personally, I cannot say I have found ISO 9001, 9004, et al. to be a guarantee of either good products or adherence to accepted code standards. I don't think either that the ISO test was meant to provide any of that. This time, we're talking about a compliance scheme that is entirely voluntary and there is no competition to it. You just need to register, pay, write down your own test questions, then take the test. Everybody can pass and it is no wonder this standard applies to everything from toothpaste manufacturing to insurance claim processing.

    There is a cynical aspect to the whole slew of ISO practices.

    The part where you write down your own test questions implies that you have to know what your processes are. Don't assume everyone does. It is the same difference between the individual who barley keeps receipts in a shoe box and the one who balances the checkbook every month, the latter gets to have some quality time on April 15. This seems to be the value of the ISO stuff.

    Note how you have now written down what your entire manufacturing process is. You've done so in an open book that all of your customers can get to look at. Hmmm, who could possibly be interested in this?

    I know it isn't the final consumer; I couldn't care less about all the details in building an automobile. How about the GM type of super large corporation that buys parts from a subcontractor? How about if this subcontractor has some secret manufacturing know-how? You bet they'll all want their suppliers to be ISO registered and you bet they'll all have their nose into your private operations.

    Working for large corporations has become a real squeeze. Think how material safety data sheets give the same naked look to chemical suppliers. Think how lawsuits can force everything out in the open. Large customers don't stop at investigating your manufacturing processes either, they've been looking for any excess profit margins in your company books that they can whack. This would all be great if it were done in exchange for mutual loyalty, but it isn't so.

    In the end, there is some value to the ISO label, just not where and for who you think. Did I answer the question? You know, with all this Coors beer I have to drink... got to keep on testing.
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    Hi Christian, i bet you don't type

    with the ''one finger search and destroy'' method i use..but i agree wholeheartedly..

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  • Christian Egli_2
    Christian Egli_2 Member Posts: 812
    140010 140011 140012, pffff

    It's hard to keep serial numbers straight, the destroy finger would seem to be the handy one to use...

    My posts are not ISO rated, and I don't care, it's your stamp of approval that I think is most meaningful. Thanks for reading.
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