What kind of system? And moving radiators to paint?

Stacey Kerr

After 10+ years of living in rented apartments, my husband and I finally own a house. The house needs a lot of work, mostly cosmetic, and my husband is ****-bent on moving the radiators to clean and paint them and clean and paint behind them. He asked me to "do some research" today to find out if this is feasible (he's pretty handy). Looking at this website, though, makes me think that I need to know what *kind* of system I have before we can figure out how to take a radiator temporarily offline. Am I right in this?

So, I guess these are my questions:
1) How do I know what kind of system we have? We've got a house built in 1883 in NJ, and our radiators are mostly those great decorative cast iron ones. (Also, one was already removed from the system by a previous owner.)
2) What is involved in removing them temporarily--before winter, obviously!

Thanks,
Stacey

Garret

Congrats on the old house purchase... sounds like a fun one.

Take some pictures of the system, and please provide more detail about what's in the basement (gas boiler?). Folks here love to see pictures of old systems, and 1883 is old!

First thing to say is.. cast-iron radiators are heavy. Really, really heavy. Like the heaviest thing you've ever dealt with... Maybe 500 lbs. Each.

So I wouldn't recommend you disconnect or move them, unless you really know what you're doing, have a lot of strong helpers (local wrestling team?), and absolutely must.

Are the rads painted now? If so, can you just clean em up, carefully (lead?) remove any chippy pieces, and repaint?

For painting behind them, just get a narrow roller, and an extension pole... it's tricky, but can be done.

-Garret

Brad White_9

Stacey

Firstly, congratulations to you and your husband on buying your first house! You will not regret it. You may have challenges, but probably not regret in the long-run.

Secondly, your heating system.

Cast iron is indicative of either steam or hot water in most homes that have them. If the radiators have one pipe in (usually with a valve) and a usually silver vent on the opposite side about halfway up, it is one-pipe steam. This is the most common residential steam system.

If there are pipes going in and out (two pipes) then it could be a two-pipe steam system or, more likely in a house, hot water.

Chances are, given the year it was built (1883), I would guess steam. It is right on the cusp of when gravity hot water became all the rage. I am 50-50 on this...

Now, go to the basement and take a look at the boiler. If steam you probably will see the following:

Sight glass- glass tube across the water line;

A pressure control: Small electrical device, usually gray, with a screwdriver adjustment and dial. May say "cut-in" and "cut-out" or be labelled as a "pressuretrol".

Low water cut-off (maybe; early 20th century device may have been added, one hopes).

Piping leaving the boiler top at one size and returning to the boiler a distinctly smaller size.

If Hot Water: Typically the pipe sizes leaving the top of the boiler and those returning to the bottom of the boiler will be large (compared to what you might ask?) and of the same size. By large, we are talking 2 inches at least, probably up to 3 inch pipe size or more for a house of about 2000 sf or so, whereas a modern house that size might take a 1 inch pipe. (Large mansions? 4 to 6 inch or more is not uncommon.)

Even if once "gravity" hot water, it may have been retrofitted with a circulator (pump). If so you definitely have hot water. Also look for an expansion tank. If not in the basement (often between the basement ceiling joists) it may be in the attic at the top of the system.


Removing the Radiators for Painting:

If a one-pipe steam system you are in the best position. The system is dry when not operating. No draining required. Lock out the system, close the valves, get a wrench with a pipe for additional leverage and a backing wrench. Some WD-40 and proceed cautiously. Be prepared to replace a valve and bushing now and then.

If a water system you will have to drain it obviously. I would not trust valves that old to hold.

You might be able to strip them in place but removing them is really the right way to do it. I had some bead-blasted at my house. Contractor moved them out with a power dolly, brought them into his truck with the blaster rig on board and brought them back in. Very cool. Not cheap, but cool.

Much more to add. Might we suggest you contact a professional (see above, this web site) and find a friendly contractor whom you may want to have on-call should you get in over your head especially as heating season approaches.

Brad

Brad White_9

Heavy and Lead...

Good points, Garret! As well as posting photos. But that would be too easy...

As a painting tip, consider electrostatic painting. There is a company here in MA, may be elsewhere, called "Porcelain Patch". They charge the paint and radiator target negative/positive and can paint in place with nary an overspray. Paints round cylindrical objects around corners too!