Gas Guzzling thread

Seattle Nick

Thanks for posting that Paul. GM led the world in small powerful diesels (Detroit) and larger EMD's but threw both of those company divisions away. Why can't they build an S10, or slightly larger, diesel pickup so I can replace my 1982 Toyota that has run over 7K on B99 biodiesel? I am only getting 32mpg these days with a pickup with 1960's technology (and comfort).

Paul Pollets

FYI

If you haven't read Thomas Friedman's NYTimes op/ed piece condemning General Motors, or GM's response...it makes for an interesting read under "Heating Efficiencies" section at the bottom of the Wall.

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Mitch_4

and the response from GM is in that thread too

Just to present another side to the story. I agree about conservation, but GM raises good points. Especially references to the competition (toyota/honda) and how they are also entering the big SUV market.

Mitch

Seattle Nick

Where in the heck can I find the article? I found it on the NYtimes site....for $3.95, but I need the dough at the gas station!

Did a search here too! Help!

DanHolohan

Go to Options

at the top of the Wall and click on the forum for Heating Efficiency Issues. Then scroll to the bottom of the Wall.

Seattle Nick

Thanks Dan, that was the second time in one day I needed
assistance sheesh! What other fantastic things have I been missing?

Constantin

Actually...

... GM has the technology over in the EU. The Vauxhall/Opel subsidiary has been selling small diesels for many, many years. Even the smallest car they sell, the Corsa, comes with an optional Diesel engine. The real issue is whether GM can retool it's US engine mfg capacity to start making those engines over here, or to import them.

Diesel technology isn't that different to make from gas engines... yes, stronger engine blocks, harder materials, etc. but I imagine that the real issue is that engine plants are probably hard-tooled and thus much more expensive to change over.

Never mind brain-dead legislation

Seattle Nick

Yes, that they have the technology already makes their US efforts seem even more pathetic. One interesting note about GM ditching the Detroit Diesel division, is that Daimler Chrysler has been able to develop it into a major player once again.

Passenger diesels not allowed in MA? But you can still buy an F350 extra-cab 4x4 diesel to haul one lonesome person around I bet, mileage be damned. There are loads of those out here around Seattle doing just that. We do have the VW TDI's which go for a premium, and the Jeep Liberty (Daimler Chrysler) which has a EU diesel of some sort.

I sure hope some good comes out of the GM shakeup. Meanwhile, our family car is a 1994 Toyota Previa van supercharged, all wheel drive, 4 cyl with 245,000 miles on it and never a major repair. I am a hands-on engine guy and this is a hand-off engine...you can't even see the engine as it is underneath the front seats. Our Chevy Lumina is another story....

joel_19

Ma

Yup , we're the state of crazy wack jobs who think they are green , controll everything and live in places like Cambridge. They pretty much think that the rest of the state past RT128 is a bunch of backwards hicks. Diesel cars are banned, but you can have all the diesel trucks you want. You'd think they'd mandate cleaner fuel , nope too easy.

Brillant, ohhh did i mention they are tring to kill the windfarm because of it's "enviormental impact" or that some areas have talked about banning solar collectors "too ugly". many places you can't put in theremal pane windows,"not historically correct" and they call themselves enviormentalist.

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leo g_13

interestingly C,

a few years back, Ford built a high tech engine plant in Mexico to save on wages. After, I think 3 years, they walked away from that plant and built another one in Ontario. I believe the reporter said that they spent well over 3 billion for the 2 plants.

It turned out that at that time, they couldn't find enough computer literate employees in the Mexican area they chose. When they returned to Canada, they had over 500 college degreed applicants for around less then 150 jobs.

Can you say not doing your due diligence???

Leo G

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Constantin

Easy now...

... not all residents of the PRC are evil politicians. Some are downright nice and practical!

But seriously, it is my understanding that the banning of passenger diesels came about via the EPA, which found eastern MA in complete violation of clean-air standards... mostly due to home, car, and truck emissions. As a result, the state has been groping at all sorts of solutions to get the air cleaner...

... hence the new $29 MA inspection test that, on closer scrutiny by the EPA (and a heavy fine later), demonstrated no better ability to detect out-of-whack cars than the previous test. I guess someone failed to explain to the board that set up these new tests that using other gases as a proxy is not exactly the same as actually sampling the gases you're concerned about.

... never mind the lobbies that have prevented MA and other states from moving ahead independantly to mandate cleaner gas and diesel. Once the sulfur is out, the particulates emitted by home heating and car systems drop dramatically. Everyone knows this, but the oil companies keep a tight lid on lowering sulfur because that might cut into their profit margins.

... as JCA and others have pointed out, another problem is the proper classification of fuel. Sulfur detection systems, by and large, tend to be pretty expensive. Yet, unless there is a enforcement mechanism, more and more people might be tempted to make a run around the system and start selling non-spec stuff as the real deal.

Paul Pollets

Friedman Rebutts GM

Check out Friedman's response in the Gas Guzzling thread in Heating Efficiencies. From today's NYTimes 6/14/06.

Important and relevant.


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Constantin

Good on Friedman...

... I agree with him that this is a last-gasp response by a manufacturer who invested much of its future (and profitability) into the notion that cheap gas would be around and the $8000+ profits they were making on large trucks would continue. How to amortize the hundreds of millions of dollars in tooling, equipment, plant, and training when the demand falls off a cliff?

Never mind the deluge of used SUVs flooding the market... all the used models out there will depress sales of "new" inventory even further.

As Jaques Nasser liked to point out to his Ford underlings, the Japanese were making money on sedans, while Ford and the other US-based manufacturers were not. That, despite the fact that a number of the "Japanese" sedans have a higher US domestic content than "Made-in-USA" cars from the big three. Reliability is not a Japanese trait, but insisting on engineering it into the product apparently is.

The E85 loophole is yet another example of lobbying gone wild, with little to show for it in terms of gas saved. Your and my tax dollars at work.