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What would you do?

this approach has worked well for Gordon and me. Once they see you can deliver, they'll be more willing to listen to your thoughts.

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  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    Commercial boiler room with steam & hot water systems!

    So - the steam boiler replacement is in the bag. A 500K boiler that's being fed 1-million Btu's. No wonder the had a CO incident!

    But, the steamer serves a once-a-week use for the church.

    Meanwhile, the HW boiler system serves the offices and sees use on Sat/Sun too.

    Do you shut up and let them award the steamer replacement, which will save major bucks because the PSI settings were 6 to 9 PSI in addition to being oversized and overfired, or do you delve into the HW side of things and present all options for mod-con boilers and those potential savings too?

    Take the sure thing or present all the options and risk loosing it all?

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  • ALH_4
    ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
    It depends

    on how much spare time you have and the attitude of the individual who makes the decision. Some people respond well to long term savings, others can be sold on it, others think it's just a sales pitch. Sometimes the numbers don't speak for themselves. In business, everything always boils down to people, attitudes, and relationships. I don't see why anyone would not grant you the contract for the steam boiler because you presented options to save them more fuel on the hot water system.

  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    Can it wait?

    It might be best to do the steam job first, dazzle them with your brilliance, and then to lay out their HW options.

    For all you know, they don't have the budget to do the whole thing right now anyway.
  • what a coincidence!

    I am having a meeting with a chairperson of the convent where I used to serviced, old part of bldg is powerd by steam boliers( way over sized) and other part of bldg is heat with hot water via of steam exchanger... They are gonna question me about putting the hot water boiler in the old bldg and change it to hot water... The steambolier? Thinking about keeping it, gonna be another over kill.... Its gonna be a loong meeting and I'm not doing it for free..
  • BigRed
    BigRed Member Posts: 104

    I just completed the same job you just described in a place of worship steam to hot water.

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  • Guy_6
    Guy_6 Member Posts: 450

    If a HW changeout will be too cost prohibitive, why not a single steam boiler with a heat exchanger for the hot water areas? A new steam boiler will probably be considerably more efficient than the existing one, especially if the old one is oversized (as many are). With the proper controls, this might be the most efficient way out overall.
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162

    There's a steam system - a very old one-pipe previously vapor system being run at 9-PSI. Its feed water tank can't return water until it shuts down on low water and the pressure falls below 5-PSI. Result? It pukes heated condensate to the sewer and then adds fresh water. To make matters worse, it's overfired and oversized and has a hydro-air unit (micro-load) attached.

    Meanwhile, there's a hot water boiler serving offices and classrooms that oversized and underfired with a really screwed up distribution zoning system.

    FUBAR to the maximum x 10!

    So many ways to save them fuel, it boggles the mind!

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  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,094

    I also have seen these set ups and when the hot water system is seperasted and a seperate hot water boiler is installed and the proper steam boiler installed for the steam side of the system .It was like nite and day both system work much better then using a heat exchanger .I would lay out the truth and give them prices both ways and give them a good understanding of how things work now and how they will work and the possibablity of how much more efficent the seperate boilers will work and how it will effect there fuel comsuption.You can lead them to water and show them the benefits but you can 't make write the check that's there responablity .Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,981
    I like Clammy's approach.

    A properly sized and piped steam boiler with a properly sized and piped hot water boiler will save them a bundle right out of the gate. The Micro system should be incororated into the HW boiler to make run times a bit longer with the easier load.Out door reset is a must! All that energy firing the steamer for an air handler sounds wasteful, especially on a mildly chilly day.

    Changing a single pipe steamer will be costly, and the return will take a while longer for payback.(ROI)

    Best scenerio....Unlimited budget and a couple of hw boilers staged and rotated. MUCHO savings in the long term. My guess would be this isn't within the realm of perhapsibility. Good luck Grand PAH. Chris
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    ... and so many opportunities

    ... to come out like a shining knight in armor!
This discussion has been closed.