CSST in Town of Huntington NY

Plumdog_2

CSST in the big box store? Anyone else seen it there?

KenMez_2

CSST in Town of Huntington

I would like to have a gas fireplace installed in a room that has no easy access to gas supply. I would like to use CSST inside the ceiling joists to supply the unit. Does anyone know if this allowable in the Town of Huntington? Thanks in advance,Ken

kevin coppinger_4

what State?



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KenMez_2

Sorry it must've gotten cut off, New York.Suffolk County.And if it is allowed, is there a resource I can use to find a qualified installer?

Mad Dog_2

HI Ken..........................................................

With the dozens of towns and villages On Long Island, the only certain answer is calling the Town of Huntington Bldg Dept, and speak to the chief insepctor. Unfortunately, most towns are allowing it now. I would only use csst on a very short run where there is no practical way of hard piping it. It's too easy for someone down the line...a flooring guy or homeowner to put a nail through it. Also, make sure the Plumber is licensed in Huntington and he files a permit or it will come back to haunt you later. Black pipe on gas is ALWAYS the safest way to go - especially when pipe will be buried. Mad Dog

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Bob Harper

Alwaysthesafest???

I beg to differ Mad Dog: Properly installed, nails will simply push the CSST aside. That's part of the testing. You have a listed piping system, which means you can have joints in concealed, inaccessible locations. You have 2 joints as opposed to how many? You can route it places without having to hack the house apart to do it. You can make soft radius bends to cut down on static pressure drop. It carries a warranty by a mfr.. You are not threading pipe but assembling mechanical couplings. Sure, you can do goofy things but I just don't agree with your demonization. Maybe you feel threatened by competitors who use it and get done earlier in the day and more jobs done per week. I've found more leaks off black iron than CSST by far. Sloppy threads, dope on ground union faces, loose ground unions, misaligned ground unions, defective fittings, pipes bent after installtion damaging threads, threads not fully seated, burrs not reamed out before threading (flow), and the drop from all those fittings. You can made a manifold with shutoffs all together much like a breaker box. The yellow allows easy marking what it is for, and easily identified as to what it is carrying. Electrical wires stretched over rigid pipe abrading and shorting out.

Sure, it ain't perfect but it beats the hell out of a guy setting up a tripod cutting and threading all day only to find he miscalculated and the run doesn't line up exactly where he wants it so he forces the pipe.

You like chocolate, I like pralines & cream. Each has strengths & weaknesses.

Now, ask me about anything over soft copper for gas...

Unknown

I agree

I totaly agree wiith Bob on this one, I've replaced leaky inacessable black pipes with csst without doing any damages to walls, ceilings... The plms is the local goverment agencies are ingorants on this (as well with others products). Went to supply house to get the csst products, didn't have my training cert card with me, can't sell it to me... Down on the block to big box store, buy all the tubings, fittings u want to anybody....sighs...

Unknown

There it is

The phrase that gives many false comfort .... " Properly installed " . Real world ? It just ain't happenin' Bob . I took a quickie class to get certified to run flexible gas lines . They specifically stated that no part of the gas line should be reachable by any kind of fastener , other than the one holding the gas line in place . Reason ? It's too easy to pierce the material . How many times have you missed hitting a pipe hook and accidentally hit a black pipe ? Any damage to the pipe ? What would happen if that pipe was the flexible kind ? What if it was another tradesman that did the damage without telling anyone ? On a live line ? And straightened the kink out with pliers without telling anyone about the potentially leaky spot ?

I'm in total agreement with Matt . I cannot trust using a material that I can crush in my own hand and can be compromised by a tiny splatter of flux - just to save time on a job . Feeling threatened by competitors has nothing to do with it . It's a simple equation for me - would I use the material in my own home ?

jim lockard

we run

right much Wardflex (CSST) and I would have no problem with installing it in my home. As for copper its ok for water or freon but not for fuel gas. Best Wishes J.Lockard

bob_50

What's wrong

with copper?

jim lockard

I know

Alot of folks use copper but its not for me. It work hardens, if it touches metal (iron or steel ) it can cause electrolics an fail over time no thak you CSST or black pipe is all I use. Best Wishes J.Lockard

Weezbo

CSSTis good material.

it installs like pex. there is a type of underground pex called pex X -X it is for Nat gas.it has specific fittings, i went to bat for them at city hall with a bit of opposition from the union. it is acceptable you can likely find someone to install it with certifcation in your area.Tracpipe works well. i have installed it as you suggest.up the wall over the cathedral ceiling and down the other side. you still must size it for the gas BTU developed length etc ...the thing about it is you wont have fittings burried in a wall, usually, as it comes in a roll like soft copper . if you have a Furgeson wholesale house in your neighbourhood they may have someone that they know has the qualifications to install it correctly. *~/:)

good luck.

Mad Dog_2

The nail on the head, Ron (pun intended)

The problem I have with many of the new, "easier: technologies is that it encourages even greater sloppyness and carelessness. We see that alot. Nonsense! that the nail will push the csst aside...sometimes yes...many times NO! I have seen it first hand too. Easy with the "threatened" comment, pal. We embrace new technologies if and only if I have found them to prove superior. I find csst to be safe-practical in very few installs. I have a section of 1" trac-pipe supplying my Viking-type stove. It runs from the basement about two feet up behind the stove. Its was the only practical way of doing it because of the weight of the stove. You can run it through your whole house - be my guest. Properly doped and screwed black pipe that is pressure-tested is the safest way to go. Mad Dog

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heatboy

I agree with the point......

.....of potential sloppiness, Matt, as evident by the proliferation of PEXghetti. I have also seen CSST looped through a building without proper support. That doesn't mean if you or I use PEX, CSST or anything other labor saver it would look like that. As soon as my wholesaler starts stocking ProPress gas stuff, it will become my primary installation method. As much as I like the ease of install and huge labor savings with CSST, I still like the looks of right angles and plumb better :-)

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KenMez_2

Thank you everyone for your input on this subject, I love the knowledge base that resides here. I am hoping that the Town of Huntington is up to speed with this stuff. The main reason I want to use this stuff is because the joists I need to go through are on 12" centers, and I don't
want to have 20 couplings buried in my ceiling.Thanx again for the help,Ken

Unknown

more

More reasons to use the csst on this job! U'll have less of the chance of leaks with some 20 plus couplings, fittings esp with forgien fittings are mixed together...

Mad Dog_2

Only a reall Yo-YO would use that many couplings................

What a professional would do is run it high and tight to a ceiling corner and would have it boxed out by a carpenter. Mouldings can hide anything. Mad Dog

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helpingothershelpthemselves_2

Town of Huntington ,Code

Contact Frank Sanservino in the Huntington Town Plumbing Department for the lowdown on the code.

He is a plumbing inspector in the Town of Huntington, and a straight shooter. I know he is not fond of using CSST but he will tell you the code as well as his opinion.
I teach at Boces Dix Hills with him .You can tell him that Ken Resnick ( oil heating instructor) from Boces suggested you contact him .

Bob Harper

workmanship?

That question goes for anything!

To address the issue of nail strikes, go back to the CSST manual and course:
There are striker plates to protect it where it penetrates framing and therefore cannot move. However, once it is in an open cavity, it Must have slack, so it can move if a fastener touches it. This is why during testing, they drive 16d nails into a stud cavity and it just pushes the CSST away. Ya'll talk about black iron as if everyone installing it does so in a workmanlike manner. Sorry, but that just isn't the case everywhere. You've got a few old warhorses who were properly trained many yrs. ago and more importantly, who give a crap. Then you have these young punks who think they should be paid like rap stars to sit on their butts. I find iron fittings with huge gobs of pipe dope that oozed inside the pipe. Gang, if dope clogs a gas valve and someone has an Oops!, we're all going to court! It also cuts down flow.

I'm just saying that workmanship aside one's as good as the other, only CSST is about 10 times faster and can do things you can't with black iron.

What's wrong with copper? Maybe we need to start another thread. ;-)
Have a good day guys & gals!

jp_2

nail guns?

are those 16d's hammer driven or nail gun driven? I'd think theres a big difference.

and what about those 2.5 inch skinny finish nails?

I agree with both sides to a point here. i think both have there 'best' applications.

Ray Landry_2

A material is only as good as the person installing it. I have seen FIRST hand numerous installations PASSED BY PLUMBING/GAS INSPECTORS that did not jive with the csst handbook.

Hackers running trac pipe whips down to boilers/furnaces vertically with no supports (it must be supported every 30" vert) one false move and you risk breaking the stuff.

I just last week witnessed a job we where on where another contracter did the plumbing we did the mechanicals he ran his trac above the ceiling strap in a basement and tightly secured it to the strap with mouse eared clips. DUUHHH! THIS PASSED INSPECTION. I personally told the homeowner about the violation and he is going to pursue it. And to everyone talking about steel joints failing- as Matt said, a properly doped and tightend NPT joint will out last ANYTHING as far as I'm concerened.

Would I use CSST in my own home- NO WAY. Is it good for small whips for boiler change outs- Yes, if it's secured properly. In retrofits is it a time saver? If youre going through confined spaces- yes. It really humors me to see people using it on new construction though. Would you rather have a nice perfectly straight 1 1/4 steel line with two hangers over a run of 20' or would you rather string a chalk line up to develop a plumb line, fight with decoiling a roll of trac, and be forced to put up 9 hangers?

Geo_14

CSST

Just wondering,are the people that dislike CSST the same People that refuse to run Pex for domestic water?,chating with other Plumbers in the supply house I find the two coincide.

Weezbo

Mad Dog *~/:)

i would like to buy a 42 f00t piece of black iron and run it up along the stack inside my chiminey.... Do you know which trucking company i can get to deliver it from the east coast? ....remember?

Ray Landry_2

I'm not a fan of pex for potable water. It has it's advantages for remodels, but it never made sense to me why people use it in new houses. We either use flow guard cpvc or copper. The biggest problem I see with the pex is that typically the chlorine levels here in mass are too high to advocate using it, and I feel that simple additions to the plumbing system down the road (sillcocks, laundry sinks, ect) become more difficult because the plumber doing the repair must have the appropriate pex tools to work on the tube. I still think that copper is the tried and true method.

Dave Larsen_2

safest!

The safest way to go is a proper installation. do you use galvanived pipe for your water lines? copper can be punctured too. what about romex for electrical? Plastic DWV? all have the ability to be damaged. All have properinstallation methods. so......is th problem the material or the installer that needs to be aware of how it is installed??

Unknown

here in

Here in west suburbs of Chicago....

Weezbo

i do not agree with selling the product thru Box Stores...

what is the name of the manufacturer?

that does not seem like a good idea.

Unknown

I will

I will get the brand name next time I go there.. I've seen people trying all kind of way to this pipe together that would make me cringed...