PVC steam pipe

S Ebels

Please be aware that my post was said with tongue firmly planted in cheek. PVC is NOT suitable in any way shape or form in a steam system. Trust us on this. You are getting the collective experience of hundreds of years here from some of the best in the industry. PVC doesn't work for steam.

I think the key word in your response was "almost" as in, almost work. The only places where "almost" actually works is in a game of horse shoes or tossing hand grenades.

Mark_71

PVC for Steam Pipe

Residential steam is only about 2 psi, and perhaps within the thermal limitations of PVC? Has anyone ever tried or heard of using pvc or other plastic pipe for residential steam piping?

Seems worth a shot to me, but I know very little about the thermal limits of plastic piping and related adhesives, or the temperature of residential steam.

Mark M.

gerry gill

gonna melt..

me thinks..

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Mark Hunt

Be sure


to take before and after pics and post them here.

I used to have pictures of a similar install someone posted here years ago. Computer crashed and I lost them.

Don't do it.

But if you do.....post pics!

Mark H

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DanHolohan

I've seen it done.

It melts.

Unknown

Dan, did you have

Dan, did u have a artciule in PM magazine regarding a contractor was outbidded by other contractor using the pvc on steam system? I would give this guy a go ahead and report back to us wallies..

DanHolohan

Yes, I did.

And I'm trying to be nice. ;-)

Mark_71

So,

I gather from the responses that it has been done, but it probably will melt. Could it work if steel were used within the first several feet of the boiler and then branced off to PVC?

Mark_71

Death of Steam

So, Why did residential steam die? Is it because of the expense of installing steel pipe, or is the design just inferior to pumped hot water?

S Ebels

So

The answer is still this, you can choose to use PVC in your steam system anywhere your little heart desires. Close to the boiler or at the last radiator matters not. It will still turn into something resembling spaghetti no matter how far away you run it. There is only one material to use for steam and that is steel.

Mark_71

really

It seems that it might almost work. I guess the temperature of the steam is pretty high. Does anyone know the temperature of residential steam.
Mark

Anthony Menafro

I would lean towards the ability to zone areas more easily with hydronic as opposed to steam. I say, as long as it isn't scorched air, more power to you.

Anthony Menafro

DanHolohan

Yes,

it's 220 degrees.

It's not an appropriate material for steam heating.

Unknown

what's ur

Are you a homeower trying to do things the cheapest way out ? What's ur job or expertise in what field? I get the feeling that u'll hurt urself and/or your family.

Mark_71

Steam is less efficient

yes I am a homeowner.
I like the feel of steam heat and the beautiful simplicity of 1 pipe steam, but steel pipe intallation is beyond what I am willing to do / or learn to do.

Aparently steam is less efficient anyway.
http://www.burnham.com/ConvertingSteam-Water.cfm

ed wallace

steam

steam is the original central heat system millions of homes still have steam heat systems the beaty of steam is less moving parts as to the pvc issue pvc is rated for 180 degrees steam operates at 220 degrees you do the math

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Mark_71

I guess there are other options

such as modern flat panel radiators with copper or pex to deliver circulating hot water.

That article I posted on hot water was interesting because he is suggesting the boiler to regulate its water temperature in relation to the outside temperature.

Steamhead (in transit)

Mark, that's not the whole story

A pound of steam can move 970 BTUs. This is due to the "Latent Heat" involved in changing the substance we know as H2O from a liquid (water) to a gas (Steam).

A pound of hot water, on the other hand, is much weaker- it can only move 10 to 40 degrees, depending on the difference in temperature between supply and return. Remember, the definition of a BTU is that amount of heat needed to raise one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit.

So you need to heat a lot more water to deliver the same amount of heat.

It is possible to achieve 90% and higher efficiencies on steam boilers. The standard line we get from American boiler makers that it can't be done, just isn't true. They do it in the UK and Canada, and possibly elsewhere as well (Hoval and Gasmaster are the ones I know of). Why American boiler makers won't do this is a mystery to me. The first one who produces a good reliable high-efficiency line of residential steamers is going to sell a LOT of boilers. Here in Baltimore, I could probably sell them right off the truck!

And don't think converting a steam system to hot-water is without its pitfalls. I've seen enough botched conversions to know otherwise. I run from these botch jobs since they are lawyers' dreams. Check out the following link:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=22

Finally, it is very possible to make dramatic reductions in a steam system's fuel comsumption by just getting the basics right. One customer in particular has recorded savings of 36% and counting. Another, much larger system showed a slight savings along with huge improvements in steam distribution and residents' comfort.

Since Burnham sells a lot of steamers, I find it curious that Mr. Roche would put something like that on the company's site........

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Brad White_9

Continuous use of Steam in PVC

is possible so long as it is a vacuum system held below -24.2 inches Hg. (2.8 psia). That corresponds to 140 degrees F more or less but then, you might as well use a ModCon at that temperature.

Of course it is a stupid thing to do; just the theory of it all

ScottMP

Mark

if you can't afford to have some one repair your steam system with steel piping .. you'll never be able to afford a complete re-bild with a panel rads and new boiler.

There are somethings an H.O. just can't due and you need to bite the bullet and hire a pro to do the work. Danger happens when someone feels they can save money by doing something they don't fully understand.

There are plenty of things at your home you can do to save money .... Steam is not one of them.

Scott

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Unknown

scott..

U will never know how many lives or damages u have reduced by saying the last comment in the last post... Thanks for saying it...

Albert Huntermark

PVC & Steam Don't Mix!

It is ironic but I just came back in from repairing some 1-1/2" PVC lawn sprinkler piping that came into contact with some leaking steam from a transmission line buried four feet below it. The PVC was before the sprinkler zone valves, therfore it was charged with full cold water pressure constantly. Well the leaking steam heated the pipe and the ground around it. To make a long story short, the heat softened the PVC pipe, the water pressure increased due to the heating, and stretched the softened pipe to the point of 1-1/2" pipe being stretched to where it was a little larger than the outside diameter of an 1-1/2" fitting!!! The fittings stretched proportionately as well. Everything remained perfectly round! I think because of the lines being buried was what kept them round and from bursting! Imagine the pressure though, with the pipe being able to stretch under the pressure of the earth surrounding it. The actual PVC leak occurred where the PVC came into contact with the leaking steam. It melted right through it. The guys from the steam company said that they see buried plastic pipe, primarily sewers melted all of the time around leaking steam lines. Don't use PVC for steam!!!

Hydronova

Pvc

I did a emergency call awhile back in a 30 storey building where 60psi steam was used to heat a tankless coil and the dhw was then conveyed in bow pex. It worked fine for a few years until a slow acuator caused the piping to superheat, melted the water mains and even caused the sprinkler system to got off on the 28th floor. Me thinks copper would have been cheaper in the long run.

My personal opinion is that pvc isnt even fit to run dcw piping, I dont install it on job, and certanally never in my own home. you have to ask yourself what your insurance company will say to you if this arrangment causes damage and you tell them you decided to fit your own steam system in plastic....good luck.