Replacing Old Steam Boiler

Jack_33

Brad,
Thank you for the help and in responding to my question. You have given me alot to think over.

Jack_33

Replacing old steam boiler?

We presently have a 40 to 50 year old steam boiler by "National Radiator Co" that provides heat to our home. There are steam radiators (single pipe) in each of the rooms only on the first floor. There are no steam radiators in the second floor bedrooms. We also heat our domestic hot water with this system as well.
During the entire year we spend about $1200 to $1400 for fuel oil costs.
I would like to replace the old boiler with a new one and put heat in the second floor.
Where to start? Is is it feasible to place steam radiators upstairs? Approximate costs involved?
Thanks.

Brad White_73

That's Odd...

No radiators on the second floor? May have been at one time and perhaps removed?

Anyway, the basic answer to your question is, yes, you can run steam to the second floor (you may even have old pathways, patched over.. still think it's odd but I will get over it.)

First things first:

1) Is the envelope improved or will it be? (Fully insulated in walls, roof, perimeter; new windows or good storm windows? Re-sided with Tyvek? All that good stuff.) Plug the leaks basically.

2) Perform or have performed a detailed heat loss of the house as it will be for your heating system.

3) Know your radiators. Not by name although that is up to you. Know them by size (square feet EDR).

4) Compare radiator output to each room's heat loss. They may be over-sized if your house will be insulated. Sometimes that is life. You may elect to move some around so that they are greater than but as proportional to the room's heat loss as you can get.

5) Add radiators to the second floor as you wish. Make these proportional to those remaining on the first floor. In other words if the downstairs radiators are 20% over-sized, the second floor radiators should not be more than that. Strive for balance. Essentially you want your radiation output to be as close to and not less than your heat loss, room by room.

6) After all this, the boiler is sized for the connected radiation, not the heat loss. Indirect relationship.


You are to be commended for preserving the steam system. Now you can also insulate the piping, assure proper venting, correct the near-boiler piping if need be. Add TRV vent valves at the radiators... control to lower pressures... lots of things you can do to make your steam system the best it can be.

Last word on costs: Unwritten policy here that costs are not discussed. Every professional has their local market, economic realities, knowlege base, volume with wholesalers, actual field conditions, labor and overhead costs, etc. etc. So many variables that no one really has the ability to give out prices in this forum. It is not responsible. Best bet is to call a pro.

Good Luck!

Brad

gerry gill

not much to add,

Brad's got it covered..was there by any chance floor/ceiling grates that let hot air rise to the second floor? maybe they've been covered up..also, if you were to run your boiler for an hour straight, would the second floor get hot? i'm just thinking of the original coal boiler with a 7-8 hour run time per load of coal..doesn't help now..but it may answer the question of why no second floor radiators.

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Brad White_73

Ceiling/Floor Grates Make Sense, Gerry

Excellent point. I have seen that once in a bungalow near me in Boston, years ago. Thought at the time it was a cheap short-cut -and obviously have not thought about it since! In retrospect, I guess it was effective especially of sleeping cool was a way of life in the 1920's. Interesting.

Guy_6

grates

Those grates may have been a holdover from the coal days, when a stove or basement furnace was the central heating plant. The Coal Dead Men knew that heat rises, so they just gave it a pathway. When the Steam Dead Men came in, it may have just been a matter of economics.

Steamhead (in transit)

Also check

for tees on the steam mains with their branch connections plugged. These would have been where risers to radiators on the second floor were connected.

While you're down there, check to see that the ends of the steam mains are vented. Measure the length and diameter of the mains and we can tell you what vents should be there.

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Jack_33

Replacing Old Steam Boiler

Thanks for all of your suggestions. There are approximately eight houses built around the late 40's (outside of Boston)on this street . All were constructed by the same builders and a few each have the original steam boilers in their basements. The others have made the change over to FHW over the years. Each of them have told me that they never had heat on the second floors and some added it later. There are no grates in the ceilings in order to allow heat to that level.

Would a change to a FHW system replacing old piping, steam radiators, etc..., with PEX tubing (to each floor) , etc... be a better solution? Thanks again!

Al Gregory

Install FHW on the second floor using a tankless coil in the new boiler. Then you can zone it also.

Steamhead (in transit)

The ROI on a complete tear-out and replacement

wouldn't be that great. It's a real labor-intensive process.

You could zone the second floor with steam too. Simply install a thermostatic radiator valve on each radiator, which would limit the temperature in that room.

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