System 2000 EK-1 oil power venting noisy?

Leo

If you plan to stay in the house get a chimney or a liner. Power venters are cheaper but they need replacement over time so the cost can easily catch up. Another thing to consider is the exhaust vent. If it is anywhere near a deck or porch in the good weather while making hot water you will have fume complaints. I work on all the equipment out there but prefer a chimney.

Leo

D107

Considering this boiler

Trying to avoid cost of new chimney liner for flue; option for power venting looks doable, just concerned about noise and wondering if exhaust is as safe as for buderus, etc.

I gather this is not sealed combustion? Might require FAI?

Also seems like the EK-1 Frontier (front servicing access) would be superior to the standard EK-1 (rear access). Not sure who would want the latter.

Thanks,

David

maine rick

> Trying to avoid cost of new chimney liner for

> flue; option for power venting looks doable, just

> concerned about noise and wondering if exhaust is

> as safe as for buderus, etc.

>

> I gather this is

> not sealed combustion? Might require FAI?

>

> Also

> seems like the EK-1 Frontier (front servicing

> access) would be superior to the standard EK-1

> (rear access). Not sure who would want the

> latter.

>

> Thanks,

>

> David



do it right the first time - spend the money on the liner.

D107

could you please explain why

if power venting is specified as a viable option? I know some wallies don't like to spec power or through the wall venting except on mod/con boilers.

Thanks,

David

D107

PS if you put in liner, then you're stuck with that particular

flue size going forward. so when you change boilers in future, likely have to install a different liner depending on boiler specs.

Thanks,

David

Paul Fredricks_3

ok

Hi David,

Power venters have multiple moving parts. Read this as more to break down. Having the moving parts in the exhaust stream is not the best for longevity.

For me, a chimney is best. The liner is sized for the BTU rating of the boiler. Unless you are going to reduce/increase the size of the boiler significantly in the future you should be fine the the proper liner installed now.

The only time I use venters is when there is no other option.

Joe Brix

The majority

of residential size boilers require a 6" flue. Even the high efficency oil burners with 5" flues normally call for a 6" chimney stack @ 15 feet. As said, the power vent is a last resort.

I would go with a DV designed boiler before putting in a power vent. I'm suprized EK never put a balanced flue burner option on their boilers rather then the power vent. Much quieter solution.

Dom_2

I'm surprised that system 2000 does not offer a direct vent package. If a chimney liner is too costly I would avoid power venting and look at the many boilers out there that have direct venting. We have put in several Buderus boilers with direct vent and have had no complaints.

Mark Hunt

T Jernlund


makes a heck of a power venter that is "quiet". Quiet is a subjective term.

Before I would power vent a boiler, I would STRONGLY recommend a direct vent model like the Buderus. I have also had great performance with the Burnham LEDV.

I absolutely hate chimney liners. Tell me how a corrugated tube can be cleaned thoroughly!! I won't go into the other reason I hate chimney liners.

Direct vent. Draws combustion air from outside instead of depressurizing your home even more than it already is. That amounts to less infiltration. Less infiltration means less heat loss. Lower heat loss means lower heating cost.

Mark H



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Terry_14

Properly sized and maintained boiler

Personally I like the EK Frontier the fresh air intake will not cause drafts to satisfy combustion air.

Setting the boiler up correctly will not require liner cleaning in my experiance.

Power venting as last resort for me also. I like the EK for it's cold start operation. The heat stays in your living space rather than sitting in the basement.

Should you be located near Oneonta NY the company I work for can quote you. Great question and Great responses

Terry T

chapchap70_2

David,

I believe the reason EK does not support Direct Venting is because of the difficulty of putting a boiler back together "gas tight". This becomes more and more difficult each time a boiler gets taken apart to clean. I believe there was a study done on this but I can't find it on the web. Direct Vent boilers usually operate with positive pressure so flue gases can leak into the house.

The rear service boilers were the original EK boilers. They did not make a front service boiler when they started. I think the rear service boilers are a bit cheaper and if you have the room, I don't see why you shouldn't consider it.

If you have a small house, you can power vent with an EK using outside combustion air and a lower gph nozzle than with a chimney. If the flue gas temperature is too low, it may have too far to go before condensing with a chimney.

Power Venting is definitely cheaper than a chimney and I think noise is neglible. If the power venter fails, the spill switch on an EK will lock the burner out so you have little to worry about with flue gases entering the house.

D107

very interesting carl

Don't know if any other wallies found leaking flue gases a problem with any mod/cons. You'd think they would have tight gaskets on the access panels...

As for rear service Ek-1s--you're saying get it because of price? (nothing to do with flue gases, right?) I would think front service would be easier for maintenance. Usually more light in front. We do have room between wall and back of unit to work with though.....

This is a 1950s 2000 sq ft house with monoflow system/convector boxes. Heat loss maybe 50Kbtu with emitters at least 100K. So EK1 would be firing on the low end of the scale. Funny the energy kinetics people don't even provide net ibr for these boilers. just gross input and output. I guess they're saying there is minimal loss from pickup factor? Very unusual. They also say no outdoor reset or modulation required, possibly connected to the tiny amount of water maintained in boiler chamber.

Chimney liner adds at least another grand to the job. Good to know there's safety on failed power venter but if it's something that happens often, there's a maintenance and heating issue. Probably need a dedicated FAI with power venting though.

Thanks again,

David

Joe Brix

I got

my Burnham LE with Riello BF5, stainless flex liner, Phase III TR-36 and added a Tekmar 260 for less then the cost of the System 2000. Now I have outdoor reset with a quiet boiler. The EK system can't do outdoor reset, it short cycles too much as it is.

chapchap70_2

The safety switch is not on the power venter. It is on the EK boiler. The puff switch breaks when there is too much positive pressure in the boiler for over (1 minute?) a certain amount of time. I don't know of other oil fired boilers with this puffback protection feature. It works as long as it doesn't get disconnected (by a person who doesn't test for draft and thinks it is a mysterious lock out.)

The sealing of boilers over time is suspect as they get older. There are lazy and/or careless techs that don't bother to replace gaskets on old boilers. (if they even have them on the truck) I've seen old boilers with cracked and missing gaskets. It is not a huge problem if the boiler is clean and the draft is negative. If you go with direct vent, make sure you use a good service company.

An EK-1 is an EK-1. I don't think there is an operational difference between the frontier and the standard boiler. The frontier is easier to service and you have an inside view of the chamber. I think that if the standard was more expensive to make than the frontier, there would be no reason to have it.

The Tekmar control can be used with the EK but it would be like putting two zone valves per zone.

Joe Brix; If a properly installed EK behaved as you say in this and other posts, the company would have gone out of business long ago.

Joe Brix

EK's energy manager

does not do outdoor reset, so why would you put a tekmar on it? I'm just not impressed with the boiler for what you get for the price. No one here is crazy about power vents. SO why not buy another boiler that will give you the same performance at a lower cost so you can get the liner. I did.

D107

Why not just keep using existing chimney?

I'll have to see if it's code but the existing chimney--with terracotta lining-- has been serving for 50 years. (I believe conversion to gas would require liner, but maybe for oil it's OK.) I would have a good chimney guy inspect and clean it. The only drawback might be matching the chimney to the boiler's required flue size.

Also not sure why a liner would be corrugated. In a coop I was in we had to put in a stainless steel liner for a new laundry system, and I recall it being smooth, put together in a few sections screwed together and lowered down into basement. I believe it came above the top of the chimney with a cleanout/access door for periodic cleaning.

Thanks,

David

Leo

Like other high efficient systems

The EK like other highly efficient boilers has low stack temps which can lead to condesning in the chimney. This helps ruin a chimney so it is a good idea to get it lined now no matter what system you put in. As much as I am biased toward oil get a liner that is compatable with both oil and gas. I am a firm believer in only having to spend money once.

Leo

chapchap70_2

FAI

Sorry I didn't understand the abbreviation before so I didn't comment.

EK recommends fresh air intake on all of their boiler installs for efficiency reasons. If you use indoor heated air for combustion, it must be replaced (with cold outside air.)

A power vented EK is essentially sealed combustion with a power venter. (They don't think it will remain "sealed combustion" after taking it apart many times.)

The power venter on their unit is supposed to be set up with a draft of between -.10 and -.12. It has to be pretty windy outside to overcome this and blow flue gases the wrong way.

I believe that all power venter manufacturers require fresh air intake although most boilers I've seen power vented do not have it. This may partly explain why many techs do not like power venting.